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Apr 13 2024 12:17pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Apr 13 2024 06:59pm)
Why would a wartime economy collapse if the war ended?

Think about it


Ukraine's economy is completely destroyed and on life support

Think about that
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Apr 13 2024 01:05pm
This post is a violation of the site rules and appropriate action was taken.

Quote (Djunior @ 13 Apr 2024 21:17)
Ukraine's economy is completely destroyed and on life support

Think about that


This requires brain
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Apr 13 2024 01:21pm
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Quote (Norlander @ Apr 13 2024 09:05pm)
This requires brain


Brain cells seem to be in short supply in the West :(
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Apr 13 2024 02:58pm
Quote (Djunior @ Apr 13 2024 07:17pm)
Ukraine's economy is completely destroyed and on life support

Think about that


Special military operation, err war complete?

Break out the borsch comrade and give another washing machine to my niece.
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Apr 13 2024 06:07pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Apr 13 2024 11:59am)
Why would a wartime economy collapse if the war ended?

Think about it


In historical precedents, how do you think wartime economies have transitioned to peacetime after winning a war? Particularly those that adapted to self sufficient production. Like America post WW2.
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Apr 13 2024 11:12pm
One important caveat to keep in mind regarding the collapse of wartime economies: the famous hyperinflation in Germany after WWII was not just caused by the end of the war per se - the nazis had engaged in unsustainably high levels of spending while they ramped up the arms industry and the infrastructure spending. Their economy policies were geared toward waging war from the get go. Nazi Germany had a rapine economy which crucially hinged on extracting resources out of occupied countries and on exploiting an army of forced laborers. Estimates for late August of 1944 are that one quarter of Germany's entire labor force consisted of foreigners who were de facto enslaved.

Huge amounts of money printing plus the loss off all the resources and labor caused the hyperinflation, which also affected other places in Europe. E.g. the famous Pengö inflation in Hungary which peaked at an annualized rate of (2.9 x 10)%; the successor currency Forint was exchanged to Pengö at a rate of 1 Forint = 400 octillion Pengö (400 x 10).




The point I'm trying to make with my rambling is that the end of a war only causes an economic collapse if the underlying economic conditions had already been highly unsustainable. This is decidedly not the case in Russia right now. There will be inflation eventually, yes, and the common Russians will suffer significant opportunity costs from all the spending going toward the war effort rather than them. However, Russia continues to hold vast amounts of natural resources that other countries in the world will gladly buy, and the Russian economy keeps sputtering along mostly like it used to before the war. You don't have crops in the fields left to rot because their entire workforce is in the arms factories, you don't have mass conscription which sucks up a huge chunk of their working-age population to send them to the trenches or anything like that.

Russia has permanently become China's bitch due to this war, and they have imho pissed away some 10% of their wealth in the long run by alienating the best customer for their natural gas (for which there's no easy alternative customer), but nothing they couldn't absorb.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 13 2024 11:13pm
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Apr 14 2024 05:04am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 14 2024 07:12am)
One important caveat to keep in mind regarding the collapse of wartime economies: the famous hyperinflation in Germany after WWII was not just caused by the end of the war per se - the nazis had engaged in unsustainably high levels of spending while they ramped up the arms industry and the infrastructure spending. Their economy policies were geared toward waging war from the get go. Nazi Germany had a rapine economy which crucially hinged on extracting resources out of occupied countries and on exploiting an army of forced laborers. Estimates for late August of 1944 are that one quarter of Germany's entire labor force consisted of foreigners who were de facto enslaved.

Huge amounts of money printing plus the loss off all the resources and labor caused the hyperinflation, which also affected other places in Europe. E.g. the famous Pengö inflation in Hungary which peaked at an annualized rate of (2.9 x 10^177)%; the successor currency Forint was exchanged to Pengö at a rate of 1 Forint = 400 octillion Pengö (400 x 10^27).




The point I'm trying to make with my rambling is that the end of a war only causes an economic collapse if the underlying economic conditions had already been highly unsustainable. This is decidedly not the case in Russia right now. There will be inflation eventually, yes, and the common Russians will suffer significant opportunity costs from all the spending going toward the war effort rather than them. However, Russia continues to hold vast amounts of natural resources that other countries in the world will gladly buy, and the Russian economy keeps sputtering along mostly like it used to before the war. You don't have crops in the fields left to rot because their entire workforce is in the arms factories, you don't have mass conscription which sucks up a huge chunk of their working-age population to send them to the trenches or anything like that.

Russia has permanently become China's bitch due to this war, and they have imho pissed away some 10% of their wealth in the long run by alienating the best customer for their natural gas (for which there's no easy alternative customer), but nothing they couldn't absorb.


really underrated point when it comes to the start of the invasion of poland

many people were against it, the military wanted more time, but the nazi regime was BEYOND broke already

typical socialists, every penny was spent, credit maxed out, they even introduced a promissory note system, which they had to pay back

thats why the war started when it did
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Apr 14 2024 05:33am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 14 Apr 2024 13:04)
really underrated point when it comes to the start of the invasion of poland

many people were against it, the military wanted more time, but the nazi regime was BEYOND broke already

typical socialists, every penny was spent, credit maxed out, they even introduced a promissory note system, which they had to pay back

thats why the war started when it did


An underrated point regarding the current war is that Russia's casualties have disproportionally fallen on the country's rabble, the undesirables, the plebs from the periphery. People who weren't particularly productive before the war and weren't gonna bring their economy forward without the war. The Russian society might even be outright better off without the absolute dregs who were conscripted from the prisons to be sent to their death in the Bakhmut "meatwaves" and such.

The highly educated folks which left Russia at the start of the war to dodge the looming draft and/or to leave behind its increasingly authoritarian society are probably a bigger loss from a human capital point of view than the soldiers they lost at the front.
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Apr 14 2024 06:19am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 14 2024 07:12am)
Russia has permanently become China's bitch due to this war, and they have imho pissed away some 10% of their wealth in the long run by alienating the best customer for their natural gas (for which there's no easy alternative customer), but nothing they couldn't absorb.


Ukraine has permanently become NATO's bitch, there's literally no way back for Ukraine while Russia is a nuclear power, has tons and tons more resources and will do just fine

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 14 2024 01:33pm)
The highly educated folks which left Russia at the start of the war to dodge the looming draft and/or to leave behind its increasingly authoritarian society are probably a bigger loss from a human capital point of view than the soldiers they lost at the front.


Pales in comparison to the amount of people that fled Ukraine. I heard that recent polls indicated that 70% of people that fled Ukraine have no intention to ever go back and why would they, as soon as they step into Ukraine they're snatched by Zelensky's press gangs :rolleyes:
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Apr 14 2024 06:20am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 14 2024 01:33pm)
An underrated point regarding the current war is that Russia's casualties have disproportionally fallen on the country's rabble, the undesirables, the plebs from the periphery. People who weren't particularly productive before the war and weren't gonna bring their economy forward without the war. The Russian society might even be outright better off without the absolute dregs who were conscripted from the prisons to be sent to their death in the Bakhmut "meatwaves" and such.

The highly educated folks which left Russia at the start of the war to dodge the looming draft and/or to leave behind its increasingly authoritarian society are probably a bigger loss from a human capital point of view than the soldiers they lost at the front.


its still a loss, russia has bad demographics and these people were still consumers/customers

there are plenty of countries that can afford to lose some rabble, i am not sure russia is one of them

same with ukraine btw, the rebuild the west is talking about is not going to happen
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