Quote (njaguar @ Jun 28 2018 03:36pm)

There is definitely not a consensus on this, so changes (if any) will require more thought and work to ensure a higher portion of players are satisfied, and that it doesn't adversely affect other aspects of the game (suffuscencing, etc).

Quote (BWConformity @ Jun 29 2018 02:38am)

I guess I'll take this time to write a wall of text that I've been trying to stop myself from writing since I posted the first mutable suggestion poll.

First, I'd like to say that I'm surprised by a number of the responses to this suggestion (and that is not necessarily a bad thing).

Since I started playing Ladder Slasher in 2016 (well... I guess you could say again, I played for a little while back in 2009--only solo, HC, not even enough for 1 MQ and never even looked at the forum), I've heard a LOT of complaints about the game. Most of the complaints were about lack of updates... but really, what good are updates, unless they are good updates?

Really, after talking with many players who've been playing since the beginning, or slashers who've quit (maybe more than once), the real complaint is that the game used to be so much better. These are the 2 main things that have been removed, and are greatly missed (in order of how big of an impact they had on the game) are:

1) The arena (pvp and chain counter)
2) Muting before prof was required

I know other things are missing/changed, but in my opinion, they don't fundamentally change the way the game is played... to me these two things do.

I never really got to experience the arena, but I do believe people would vote yes for the return of the arena even more so than the return of the old muting system... but then I didn't propose the return of the old muting system either, I proposed this compromise between the old and the new... of course not as imba as the old system, but the game has changed a lot and so I proposed something that I thought could actually be implemented, rather than a pipe-dream :)

So, call me crazy, but I really enjoy playing Ladder Slasher exactly as it is, in the current version. I enjoy how hard it is to find / mute anything with even one good property, much less two or three. In my opinion the impossibility of a good item is what makes hunting for one and even seeing one so exciting (and of course the value of such an item is caused by that impossibility and adds to that excitement). I love how people (however few) can play this game and have different goals, and these goals can have a long-term component that spans years... I especially enjoy the thought that there is no "max" to many aspects of the game, whereas in many games everyone ends up with the same end-game gear with all maxed stats, skills, and professions... LS is completely different from those easy games. In fact, I think there's a good case to be made that LS is the hardest, craziest game there is.

When I thought of this idea, of course I considered the impact this would have on my personal playstyle and some of my own goals. My first thought was one that was voiced by dude_927 in this and the previous topic. I'll explain it from my own viewpoint:

I have been transmuting since I started playing and I'm at rank 22 now. I'm also at rank 14 suffusencing. My main goal with these two profs is to make essences for suffusencing and skill up suffusencing so I can add crazy ee to some high level comfreys and glyphs (no, I don't really care what rank I am on the ladder), but prof gains for transmuting are about 2-3 times as fast as they are for suffusencing, which basically means, to keep skilling suffusencing, you either need to strip many essences with no prof gain, or you need to buy the essences off of other transmuters. I've been (and intend to continue) buying essences from other muters, in addition to using my own essences to skill suffusencing, and realistically if this change were implemented, I would still use all of my essences for suffusencing until they stopped giving prof. That means I would basically suffer from it because I would be buying essences to do the same thing as before, but for a much higher cost.

But of course, I still put my idea out there for you guys. The way I see it, you don't evaluate a huge game change like this based on "am I gonna profit?" I mean, it's human nature, I guess, but this is a game, so to me you evaluate it based on "what will the new game be like?" and of course, "will I enjoy playing more?"

Here's what I think will actually change that I figured you guys care about:

1) There will be many more players.
First, there will be many people who won't know anything about LS, but they will spend some fg on essences and some base mutables and try their luck to make something crazy hoping to score a fortune in fg! Of course, it will be almost impossible... of course many will waste all the fg they put in, but the chance is always there so people will always try. No, people do not decide to gamble because they are calculating the odds and want a guaranteed profit everytime, they gamble because it is thrilling to think of possibly winning crazy, and yes, it is still possible to mute something insane and worth any amount of fg, maybe even 50k+ (hell LS is a crazy game... lucky enough mute and one item could be 100k+), even if the odds are 1 in a million, maybe 1 in a billion... what if? When players come to LS to gamble, there will be many who will actually slash... the active player population that will slash (not just mute) will definitely increase and even if I don't particularly think it's important for my personal playstyle, I hear that lots of you want that.

2) Slashing will be profitable.
Yes, sellable wellables was the most significant update during the time I've been slashing ( thank you Paul :hug: ). Wellables will still sell to those slashers who are geared for welling, but mutables will also sell, especially high level ones, and not for just 1 fg anymore. I know there have been some concerns about who will buy them when it doesn't turn a profit to mute, but there are a LOT of people on the forum, with a LOT more forum gold than active slashers. When they have the potential to make tens of thousands of fg on a single lucky mute, they will try. There is no way for them to attempt that currently. Someone who doesn't know anything about LS isn't going to buy a white item off the marketplace--how will they even well it with a naked Lvl 1 character? Sell a muter your multi-prop high level drop that currently you're either shrining or waiting a few days for it to sell, and then let the muter turn a profit on that by selling it to someone with fg who wants to have a little fun. Keep selling your wellables too if you like.

3) The LS forums and marketplace are going to become way more active.
Basically, the population playing the game (of course I count the muter-gamblers too, why not) will be much higher, so of course there will be more posts on the forums, and there will also be more items being posted on the marketplace. I hear that there are never any usable items on the marketplace available for new players or something. Well, for every epic mute, there will be many decent mutes... and I'm pretty sure people who don't really play LS aren't gonna need 'em, so they'll be on the MP for new players too ;) Instant mutes... think about that.


All that being said... I am a little disappointed in the way people voted on this poll. It was supposed to be for active transmuters only, but based on the numbers, I am convinced that people who don't transmute voted. I'm also pretty sure that people who don't even know what transmuting is voted, since the poll doesn't require an active ladder slasher account or anything. I suppose there is probably some way for mods or Paul to verify which users who voted actually have at least 1 rank of transmuting proficiency or something, but it's probably just as well. I agree with Paul's conclusion based on the responses:



And as I mentioned before, I am surprised! I figured that basically every slasher would want this... this change is not something that I need to continue to enjoy Ladder Slasher (my favorite game)... I think the game is amazing the way it is. However, I know that lots of people who quit playing would start playing again if this were changed... and I've heard so many complaints about lack of updates and nostalgia about how much better the game was during the heyday of old muting that I thought people didn't like the game as much as they did back then. Turns out maybe there are lots of slashers who are happy with the game the way it is now--"No!!! >:(" is not the wrong answer by any means, and I'm kind of happy to see that response as well. What I outlined above as the outcome of this change are by no means guaranteed... in fact, no one can say for sure what will happen. I could be wrong, and those of you voting no, although maybe a minority, could be saving the game :) Also, I know there are lots of people who care deeply about this and really want to push for this change no matter who they hurt, but please, be civil :hug:

Anyway, I am probably not going to press this suggestion further--I'll leave it up to you you guys and Paul. I did want to at least get the seed of the idea out there since it only seemed right for me not to keep this idea to myself. I leave the rest to you all, and I'm never gonna quit slashing regardless of the outcome ;)

Happy slashing! :D

Quote (dude_927 @ Jun 29 2018 08:11am)

I agree, suff has some serious issues, I have two muters just so I'm not wasting the prof (also its hc so there's potential one could die). Its actually a little disheartening that both muters have surpassed my suffer. (At lvl 4 u can break t3 angelic but u can't get to the end of a t2 angelic suff at lvl 4)

(Still reading I just wanted to weigh in on that before I forgot)

1) this is wild speculation, it's way more likely we'll get player for only 2 weeks and then after that suff and mute are both even more obnoxious than they are now.

2) more speculation, sure people will gamble, but if its an economic sink that is just one more step new players can't take in this game. (A lvl 26 Muter just got deleted last week on sc because the player felt the game was "not noob friendly") (he also mad it to 26 and was never able to finish a climb)

3) all three of these arguments are the same thing, how do you figure this will be any different than the Muter just rolling it himself and selling the mediocre roll (that's what's happening now)

E: you aren't accounting that these rolls are already being rolled and the money is already being spent, you have to take it from something, it can't just materialize.

Quote (obob_ro @ Jun 29 2018 02:04am)

Balancing:

Eating a Fish / Using a glyph - should also give you a small chance to find a potion/totem/item or something.

Quote (slushslush @ Jun 29 2018 09:41am)

There have been two maybe three items muted that were worth any fg in the last like three years. None of the gear on soft core that people are using have been muted recently. It’s all old old gear.

If this game got wiped and started brand new under this patch the game would be completely dead.

Quote (BWConformity @ Jun 29 2018 11:10am)

:lol: I thought there were 0? Also, treasure chests only drop tier I - IV and the world is ruled by damn dirty apes!

Quote (dude_927 @ Jun 29 2018 08:11am)

2) (A lvl 26 Muter just got deleted last week on sc because the player felt the game was "not noob friendly") (he also mad it to 26 and was never able to finish a climb)

Quote (hasteful @ Jun 29 2018 11:38pm)

Liar