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Apr 10 2018 11:54am
Quote (BABYMETAL @ Apr 9 2018 11:37pm)
Just to make sure :huh: Did you confuse chess and tic-tac-toe or you really meant chess?


chess, fighting games are actually way more complicated on a person to person reads/game understanding ratio. i play both, i have perfect understanding of what im talking about, starcraft is about (not gonna mention the macro part because that's not a person vs person skill) scouting or guessing (if you know them) what comp they will chose, hitting your timings, and microing in fights effectively, theres some situational awareness obviously, like knowing when to trade, or hitting workers with subset force while they are preoccupied, but for the most part, theres actually not that much "strategy" in strategy games at high level, you know they only have so many effective options, and you know how to fight it, it's kinda almost like rock paper scissors until you get to a fight and then it becomes who microed better, fighting games have complicated concepts and ideas, like "whiff punishment" "spacing" "counterpoking" and "poking" these concepts make up the core of all fundamental neutral, everything done in fighting games fits into a category of one or the other 2 and they all counter eachother, knowing which to go for and when, and how to whiff punish or counterpoke in that situation to begin with, then knowing what button they will use that you want to whiff punish, and what to whiff punish it with in particular, hitting/confirming your combos, landing optimal damage, doing optimal okizeme situations which requires deep thought of the yomi. haven't even gotten into the complexity of defense, option selects, hitting your anti airs under stress, or reactionary decisions yet.

This post was edited by Sasori on Apr 10 2018 11:54am
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Apr 10 2018 11:36pm
Quote (Sasori @ Apr 10 2018 09:54am)
chess, fighting games are actually way more complicated on a person to person reads/game understanding ratio. i play both, i have perfect understanding of what im talking about, starcraft is about (not gonna mention the macro part because that's not a person vs person skill) scouting or guessing (if you know them) what comp they will chose, hitting your timings, and microing in fights effectively, theres some situational awareness obviously, like knowing when to trade, or hitting workers with subset force while they are preoccupied, but for the most part, theres actually not that much "strategy" in strategy games at high level, you know they only have so many effective options, and you know how to fight it, it's kinda almost like rock paper scissors until you get to a fight and then it becomes who microed better, fighting games have complicated concepts and ideas, like "whiff punishment" "spacing" "counterpoking" and "poking" these concepts make up the core of all fundamental neutral, everything done in fighting games fits into a category of one or the other 2 and they all counter eachother, knowing which to go for and when, and how to whiff punish or counterpoke in that situation to begin with, then knowing what button they will use that you want to whiff punish, and what to whiff punish it with in particular, hitting/confirming your combos, landing optimal damage, doing optimal okizeme situations which requires deep thought of the yomi. haven't even gotten into the complexity of defense, option selects, hitting your anti airs under stress, or reactionary decisions yet.


wat? lets hope you're not serious
fighting games aint that complicated fam
all has to do with patterns/muscle memory
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Apr 10 2018 11:40pm
Quote (zero_yomama @ Apr 10 2018 11:36pm)
wat? lets hope you're not serious
fighting games aint that complicated fam
all has to do with patterns/muscle memory


fight me in Tekken 7
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Apr 11 2018 12:12am
Quote (caswallen @ Apr 10 2018 09:40pm)
fight me in Tekken 7


ouch i dont even play that but if you're assuming i cant play it
for me to buy it just to prove a point isnt worth it fam
k thx.
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Apr 11 2018 01:57am
Quote (zero_yomama @ Apr 10 2018 11:36pm)
wat? lets hope you're not serious
fighting games aint that complicated fam
all has to do with patterns/muscle memory


this is why ur not good at them homie no offense, you dont try to actually learn the material you have in front of you beyond the base core. to be fair, NRS games do a poor job of teaching these aspects and give you many tools that allow you to skirt by with Psuedo-Makeshift-Quasi fundamentals that only work because of the way the game is designed. kotal kahn's back 1 being a mid and his launcher being armored wakeup, in older patch, is good example of psuedo fundamentals because of bad game design.
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Apr 11 2018 11:17am
Quote (Sasori @ Apr 10 2018 11:57pm)
this is why ur not good at them homie no offense, you dont try to actually learn the material you have in front of you beyond the base core. to be fair, NRS games do a poor job of teaching these aspects and give you many tools that allow you to skirt by with Psuedo-Makeshift-Quasi fundamentals that only work because of the way the game is designed. kotal kahn's back 1 being a mid and his launcher being armored wakeup, in older patch, is good example of psuedo fundamentals because of bad game design.


what?
lol'd
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Apr 11 2018 03:11pm
Quote (BABYMETAL @ Apr 9 2018 12:42am)
Hands down - fighting games will never be on par with real games that actually require skill like Starcraft 2 ;)


Quote (BABYMETAL @ Apr 10 2018 12:49am)
I'm not good at starcraft :)


The skill caps are similar for fighting games and RTS games. It's a different type of skill and comparing one vs the other is pretty pointless. Since you brought it up though, I personally believe SCBW > SC2 are the hardest games ever made (to actually be good at), but I haven't played every RTS and it's possible there are much more demanding ones out there. SC breeds a level of competition that is unmatched in the competitive RTS world and the best competition breeds the best players. I'm no expert at fighting games, but even with minimal research, or even a basic understanding of the genre, you can see how ridiculously complicated it is in comparison to other types of games. Fighters are exponentially more difficult than MOBAs, FPS, MMORPG etc..., and just like SC, I'll never be able to play at the highest level of competition for it. That's one of those things that irks me, because with pretty much every type of game I've picked up, I've been able to hang with the higher/highest tiers of players after minimal effort on my end, RTS/Fighters just take a little too much dedication for someone like myself. As I said previously, I believe the difficulty for SC is higher, but not by that huge of a margin.

e: It's kinda lame saying something like "real games that require skill" and then bringing in SC, because if you're using SC as the standard for what makes a game/genre "real", every other genre out there is going to not make the cut according to you lol. Pretty weird seeing as you admitted yourself that you're bad at the game, so you're not even decent at any "real games". Think the highest I got was Plat 1 in SC, so I am also bad lol.

This post was edited by jadeoshbogosh on Apr 11 2018 03:16pm
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Apr 11 2018 04:53pm
Quote (zero_yomama @ Apr 11 2018 12:12am)
ouch i dont even play that but if you're assuming i cant play it
for me to buy it just to prove a point isnt worth it fam
k thx.


buy it and we can have a wager... My Bob vs. any char you choose... and if you beat me in best out of 10, I will give you 200fg
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Apr 11 2018 06:00pm
Quote (zero_yomama @ Apr 11 2018 11:17am)
what?
lol'd


i beat you like 30-7 last time we played and i wasn't even trying man, you're very mediocre no offense, and you main NRS games and i don't. you don't really have an excuse to not understand your own game. fighting games are much deeper than mashing air db2 with brainiac and d1ing if they block and confirming back 3 if it hits man, very straight forward character that doesn't really teach you advanced fundamentals. not saying it's bad to play brainiac, but brainiac will carry you and eventually you will plataeu because there are just simply things you never learned properly.

This post was edited by Sasori on Apr 11 2018 06:06pm
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Apr 11 2018 06:04pm
Quote (jadeoshbogosh @ Apr 11 2018 03:11pm)
The skill caps are similar for fighting games and RTS games. It's a different type of skill and comparing one vs the other is pretty pointless. Since you brought it up though, I personally believe SCBW > SC2 are the hardest games ever made (to actually be good at), but I haven't played every RTS and it's possible there are much more demanding ones out there. SC breeds a level of competition that is unmatched in the competitive RTS world and the best competition breeds the best players. I'm no expert at fighting games, but even with minimal research, or even a basic understanding of the genre, you can see how ridiculously complicated it is in comparison to other types of games. Fighters are exponentially more difficult than MOBAs, FPS, MMORPG etc..., and just like SC, I'll never be able to play at the highest level of competition for it. That's one of those things that irks me, because with pretty much every type of game I've picked up, I've been able to hang with the higher/highest tiers of players after minimal effort on my end, RTS/Fighters just take a little too much dedication for someone like myself. As I said previously, I believe the difficulty for SC is higher, but not by that huge of a margin.

e: It's kinda lame saying something like "real games that require skill" and then bringing in SC, because if you're using SC as the standard for what makes a game/genre "real", every other genre out there is going to not make the cut according to you lol. Pretty weird seeing as you admitted yourself that you're bad at the game, so you're not even decent at any "real games". Think the highest I got was Plat 1 in SC, so I am also bad lol.


the thing about fighting games that makes the dedication and journey to being good much smoother, is fighting games have the highest amount of offline meetups of any game genre, i have two weekly locations in dallas, one in fort worth, one in plano, fort worth is tuesdays and fridays, plano on saturdays, each night brings in around 15-20 people who play fighting games, people play long sets, offer advice to eachother, some drink together, some smoke weed together, some people go get some food and come back and just talk about shit, it's a very relaxing and friendly environment, it's easy to learn when people who are good / knowledgeable are also welcoming, you feel more encouraged to stick around even though you are losing 100-0 to them, i feel like starcraft has this, but it's more difficult to find, most people instead of mentoring new players, will just simply flame and move on with their day, "lol you're fucking trash bro" and move on, fighting games have local scenes in every single state. for every game, it's INCREDIBLY accessible
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