Hi,

If im now wearing a feral claw eth 2 soc zoded. 276ed/40/7psn/fools/15min/minor adds
Fools claw dmg: 139-343
My psy dmg ends up at 730-1884 on it. (wirl)
Attack psy: 756-1919
35% CB, 15% DS, 10% ow

Chaos suawaya is 321 ed(lol max is 355)
The psy dmg in it is: 164-218
It ends up at: 1078-1696 (-216-471)
= 862 - 1,225 psy dmg. (wirl)
attack psy: 879-1248
35% ow, 15% CB, 15% DS

STR: 199
Dex: 134
Total stat bonus (199+134)/2 = 166,5%
Wirl: -10% DMG // 25% ar bonus
Claw masteries: 180%ED // 410% ar

5 * 322s = 15max



Something wrong with formula?
MIN FOOLS: 139* (1+(1,66-0,10+1,80)) = 139 * 4,36 = 6xx (seems wrong)
MIN FOOLS: 139* (1+(1,67) + 1+(1,70)) = 139 * 5,37 = 746 (seems closest)
MAX FOOLS: 343+15* (1(1,67) + 1+(1,70) = 358 * 5,37 = 1922 (close enought)
AVG: 1334

So lets say i used a stronger claw:
Doom thirst Feral:
178 - 423
MIN = 178 * 5,37 = 955
MAX = 438 * 5,37 = 2352
AVG = 1653
35% CB, 35% DS, 10% OW

Doom thirst War Fist:
355-423
MIN = 355 * 5,37 = 1906
MAX = 438 * 5,37 = 2352
AVG = 2129
35% CB, 35% DS, 10% OW

My chaos suawayya:
862-1225
AVG = 1043

Perf chaos suawaya:
177-236
MIN = 177 * 5,37 = 950
MAX = 251 * 5,37 = 1347
AVG = 1148

Perf chaos feral
100-241
Min = 537
MAX = 1294
AVG = 915

So lets sum it up
My fools AVG: 1334
My Chaos AVG: 1043

Extra dmg from war fist "doom thirst" : 2129 - 1334 = 795
Extra dmg from feral "doom thirst" : 1653 - 1334 = 319
Extra dmg from perf chaos suawayya: 1148 - 1043 = 105
Diff dmg from my chaos to feral perf chaos: 915 - 1043 = -128

So:
I gain on rare wt claw:
+ 795dmg
+20% DS each hit.
- loads of ar from fools mod (1400ish base less ar) (but wirlbug is wirlbug)
- Either slow ias trap speed or -128 chaos dmg.
- loads of fgs

I gain on rare feral claw:
+319 dmg
+20% DS
- loads of ar from fools mod (1400ish base less ar) (but wirlbug is wirlbug)
- loads of fgs

Eth fools 2 soc eth repl with same ed:
+ 20% DS
- Loads of fgs


Lets say an enemy have 50% dr and 1/6 pvp penalty. And lets call LO rune a 20% boost to total claw avg dmg(even though it less due to critic from claw masteries)
+797 + 425 = 1222
1222 / 6 = 203
203 / 2 = 101 extra life taken each hit...

Is it really worth 70k fgs? O_o I mean, i really love ghost, i really love how strong it is and its playstyle. But the one i got now is fucking owning at a 1/20 of the cost. And i dont see that it will start owning so fucking much more with this 70k investment... Or is my math very wrong?

This post was edited by gel87 on Feb 18 2018 05:38pm

before sancorro people were using chaos+fury claw and doing just fine.

the 70k fg claws only really matter against pally and bvcs.
ghosts prevent their opponent from fighting back while they're attacking, and dodge attacks when they're not.

True this.
The fools claw Will hit a few % better than cruel, even though wirl bug. That will add both the psn psy ow cb ds rather than 50more life from added psy dmg each hit...

It seems like a silly thing to me to go overboard with the expense for AR. Yeah you can have a sin who whirls better against barbs and pallies, whirl bug included, yet the matchups themselves are dumb. You can't build a ghost who will outwhirl a barb with 1/10th the cost, only trashy BvCs who didn't build for it, so your most effective means to actually beat them is to... spam mind blast and shadow master. And you can build a 102 fcr or even 174 fcr build that goes all-in on MB for a tiny fraction of the cost anyway. And if they're a rich barb who knows how to wsg-tele and has an amulet of life everlasting and can outwhirl you? What were you going to do against them anyway? You're countered. So are you going to invest in ridiculous fools claws just for matchups against pallies where you can just out-play them?

Chaos + fury is good. Chaos + damage rare is better. Chaos + fools rare that deals less than fury against low AR casters so you're just using it on an angelics swap = neh

I didn't do all your calculation but my Ghost does pretty well with a quite mid budget items as well.
Beside the fact I'm not a great PvP'er it's still a fun char to play and didn't cost me "that" much.
So yes, 70K Fgs claws help and I'd be glad to own some, but they totally don't worth the price, imo.

Well, atm i have 1 build vs all.
102fcr/48fhr
18,9k ar displayed(fools rare)
I beat loads of babas and palas, by mixing it up. Keeping them stunned and wirl them when they make mistakes and when they dont exspect and when safe, else than that ow and mb contsantly tapping down their life.
ETH Fools 271/40/15min/ZOD-BER/adds (could be 2 free socs
Chaos Suawayya 32x ed.(could be higher)
10fcr, 11str, 11@, 7xmana, 35life, 6x ar(could be better ar and dex instead of str)
10fcr, 20str, 11@, 29cr, 35life, 86 ar (could be higher ar.... and maby mana instead of single res add)
arach
Gores none upped none perf(Working on getting 213 upped ones, good add for kick and def) + prepatch 3resi boots (30frw/12dex/8life/3x/3x/3x - could be changed with bitters
Perf eod whyrmhide 15/15 (hard to get str bug anyway(because 23ish str statted to achieve precast with bramble + eth shadows), so this might suffice)
Trangs perf
2/20/20dex/20@ Works perfectly for my build, i always need dex and res.
valk 0.8 LO
9 shadows 45 - perf
5 * 20/5 (4 * 20/11 cold stashed)
5 * 322 (could maby get 5 more for vs baba/hammer/none foh dmg pala builds, but im kinda 1 build to own all)
cta 6/6 + spirit

Cant improve precast at all, its 100% perf..
30str/10/-10/3shadow coronet
30str/3shadow ammu
6fade/6venom/10/-10 gt's * 2
bramble 50%
Bug belt
soj soj
eth shadows
demon limb 5/5 fire

level 92 char. Extra dex statted for ar. 18,9k displayed after ench.

Stashed eq which i have never used, because its better with 102fcr: Viper eye 0.8, perf wisp, perf raven, highlord, angelic ammu + 1 ring.

So my best and cheapest improves would be:
level 99 char (massive adds in stats/skills/hit chance formula)
355% chaos suawyaya (3clawblock, 3mb, 3 LS/SM/CM)
Change first ring with: 10/15/35+life/70+ mana/10-11@/1xx ar (40-60 improved ar + (4 more stats and stats changed into dex which adds ar+def and the 2% more ED)) - Exspensive
Maby change second rin with simular, but 20-40ish more ar. - Exspensive
Stash 5 * 322s for AR boost.

Exspensive upgrade of fools claw into 2 FREE socs for dual BER or BERLO (20% psy increase at claw that claw + maby better staffmods)

Total maby i can improve dmg with 30% and add like 200-300 life and get better skills + add like 2k end result ar with upgrades below. The win in psy dmg from changing to war fists fools is very little and will fuck up ias and/or chaos psy dmg.

This post was edited by gel87 on Feb 19 2018 05:24am

- Use 6 skillers, not 9. Instant more ar/life/damage and free space for extra res, if needed
- get ~4200 life, everything else in dex. Damage+ar+defense.
- your main fools should have um before all, but don't use fury, it's awful and too low damage. 2x um eth selfrep 40 ias is a luxury and worth it, but 1 socket is fine too.
- get cheap "failed" claw eg. without ias or without eth and put ber in it. Only use vs barbs etc.
- get perfect chaos yes.
- stop precasting, this is pointless and waste of time. Only precast vs bm.
- normal enigma is better than eod, except maybe vs sorc. But shouldn't be needed at all, get res from amulet/rings

You don't need a perfect fools or cruels on a ghost to be effective, but those who can afford it and want their ghost to be the best it can be, will invest in one. If you own a heavy hitting claw, 9x skillers is best. If not, using 6x + 32020s will boost your physical damage and AR (at the expense of fade, weapon block and mb damage)

The original ghost build (Koda's) was doing fine vs people back in the day with a fury claw for offhand (this was years before people figured out that fools/cruels was better).
As for Doom Fist socket options, OhmOhm > OhmLo > LoLo if you use highlords. Vs all, you should always be using a fools anyway. Any combination of Um + Um/Ber/Lo/Ohm will work fine.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Feb 19 2018 03:16pm

Se asnweres inside ()

This post was edited by gel87 on Feb 20 2018 02:24am

Oki, im now done with excel sheet(gonna complement with trap calculations and some other shit later to make a complete sheet who don't need to mf info from other calculators etc for assa)

Enemy: Paladin: 50% dr, 90fr, 75pr, 4 direct dr, 8 magic abs, 15k def, level 99, 4900 life, 75% block.

Assa: level 99, 12,5 attacks pr sec on wirl, 102fcr, 48fhr, precast venom level 57 with bramble etc, and precast level 5x fade etc (120*2 ar rings, 197str, 134dex, 10 * 322s, perf chaos suawaya, gores upped 213, EOD Great Hauberk, trangs, valk 08, chaos + rare or whatever + 5/5 demon limb).

Dmg(all is chaos + rare average, cloak of shadows not included)

Eth Self Feral Claw: 272ED, 15min, 40ias, Fools, 2soc(BER + LO).:
Average HIT chance: 46,56
Average both claws Physical dmg after pvp and DR% penalty: 345(Real Chance to deal double dmg included as % add)
Average Fire dmg after pvp and res penalty: 32
Average Poison dmg after pvp and res penalty: 161
Average Magic after penatly: 49
AVG Sum dmg after penalty both claws: 587 (life taken each, OW and Crushing blow not counted)
Damage Per Second: (6,25 * 587) = 3668
After hit chance penalty: 1708
After 75% block penatly: 427
After 4 direct dr: 423 Life taken pr. sec + OW + Crushing blow.


Eth cruel + master mods, self rep 436ED/40/240ar/15min War Fist BERLO:
AVG HIT chance: 37,8
AVG both claws Physical dmg and after pvp and DR% penalty: 460(Real Chance to deal double dmg included as % add)
AVG fire dmg after pvp and res penatly: 32
AVG Poison dmg after pvp and res penalty: 161
AVG Sum dmg after penalty both claws: 702 (life taken each, OW and Crushing blow not counted)
Damage Per Second: (6,25 * 702) = 4390
After Hit Chance: 1659
After Block: 414,8
After Direct DR: 410 Life taken pr. sec + OW + Crushing blow


The AVG dmg added from LO rune on feral takes
The AVG dmg added from LO rune on eth cruel war fist takes 219 each hit.

Crushing blow hit on cruel eth war fist takes on 4900 lifed/50% DR char(again all is avg):
Hit 1 = 4900/10 = 490/2 = 245
Hit 2 = 4900-245-((3673/6)/2)-161-16 = 4417/10 = 441,7/2 = 220ish
Hit 3 = 4417-220-306-161-16 = 3714/10 = 371,4/2 = 185ish
So basicly on Hit 3 the LO rune is better than the BER rune vs this char when using such high dmg claw...

On a ETH fools 285/15min/eth/40ias/2socc feral claw:
- the First LO adds alone: 162 life killed (avg)
- the second LO boost that average dmg add to 175

So best Possible on most claws is BER + LO

Ofc the difference between War Fist and Feral will change a lot by block and DR %.

So i make a new calc for nec

This post was edited by gel87 on Feb 20 2018 11:59am