It can be a complete waste of time. I don't recommend it. But I do agree with the friends with benefits zone. If you have not established what you want in the beginning, then how does the other person know what you want. Women want sex. They want it a lot with all kinds of guys. They see us like a big sale. They just want to get everything before it's over. If you are friend zoned, it's because either you did not show what you wanted or she not that into you. It's best to find out sooner than later. It also depends on what you really want. What do you value? How badly you want it? If you highly value sex and you believe being friend zoned gives you the best opportunity with a girl you really want, then why not be her friend? I don't recommend it. However, these questions can only be answered by you.

women who want to just chill 1 on 1 with me typically want to smoke, drink and talk. I don't give the time of day to women in relationships let alone spend 1 on 1 time with them. I'm pretty straight forward with everything, including attraction to women. I get what you're saying about women wanting it all and i've had my fair share too. the problem with me is probably that I really don't want a relationship, and once a woman has fucked me a few times she starts asking serious questions and it becomes known that I'm not really interested in settling down. the problem with that is they always take it as a reflection of them and not a reflection of me, which they should

This post was edited by Giannis on Oct 17 2017 09:17am

girls will be girls, but each scenario you have to really feel it out. some girls arent ready, maybe theyre still trying to get over an ex.
you should definitely be around, but DO NOT pursue them if theyre not ready. being pushy will just make them hate you.

I will talk about the 2 points i have put in bold

1.if you're a man looking for a relationship you should associate yourself with women?
Yes and no. let me explain
Yes if you do it in a way where it is to elevate your percieved value. meaning that if you are around woman, more woman will notice you.
No in the way where you seek friendship with a woman then try to turn that into a sexual relationship. That's a trap don't do it.
If you have alot of woman in your social circle you raise the number of woman you meet automatically, let's say you are having a cofee with a girl you have as a friend and two of her friends walk by, they start talking and she introduces you. Next time you see either of those girls you can start a conversation very easily since you've already met. that's smart social game and you should try it out.
Also being around woman you don't care for sexually makes you way smoother when meeting potential partners since you're way more comfortable with the other sex in general.

2. am I immature to view friendships with women as a waste of time or them just trying to get attention?

No, it can be very boring to hang with women at times and you might think it's pointless or wasting your time. I totally get that you feel that way. I used to do too.
Try to see it like this tho, women generally have way higher social inteligence than men, so by hanging out with them and actively nociting the way they act you are raising your social inteligence.
You can even ask them to help you out if you're feeling that it is hard for you to approach girls, they will tell you what they like for a guy to do when they are being approached and then you can try it out yourself on another girl. They love talking about that stuff so it really won't be awkward, they'll be glad you asked.

From a girl's perspective- I have male friends, but they're not close. No where near the best friend territory. I feel like I wouldn't be comfortable with it... I'm not sure why. Probably because I would feel like I was leading them on.

Sometimes girls can be uninterested in their male friends but decide to give them a chance and things wind up working. If you're ever interested in taking things further with a friend, just talk to them about it and tell them you're interested. If she's not interested, both of you can be mature enough so that the initial friendship won't go anywhere. I've had friends I crushed on who have rejected me yet we're still friends because the friendship was what came first. One rule though, don't ask a girl out twice man lol. If she says no the first time and is still hanging out with you, don't ask her out a second time or goodbye gg

What I've done in the past was when confronted with that situation I say "but knowing how I feel about you I just don't think I could have a friendship with you, not always wondering what could have been between us" and more often than not it gives me the chance with the girl. But you gotta follow through, if they don't take the bait you cannot be friends. That's just the way this card is played.

Are you asking if we should be friends with women?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yes. The friend zone or "being a person's friend" as I like to call it, is just a defense for men who can't believe they got rejected by some girl they like and feel that as reason to stop liking her.



I don't think I'd wanna be with a girl that is down with this level of desparation, even for a one time romantic encounter.

This post was edited by iDoYardWork on Oct 19 2017 11:16am

Put her in the acquaintance zone

Just be friends and dont care about zones? I need the friend zone, dont take it away from me