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Oct 6 2017 06:47am
Quote (Landmine @ Oct 6 2017 02:45pm)
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


I see, so "the people" should be seem in a context completely separate from "a well regulated militia"?
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Oct 6 2017 07:33am
Quote (Leevee @ Oct 6 2017 07:47am)
I see, so "the people" should be seem in a context completely separate from "a well regulated militia"?


the comma between militia and the people should clarify that individuals have the right to bear arms?

This post was edited by sir_lance_bb on Oct 6 2017 07:34am
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Oct 6 2017 07:40am
I especially love this part of the history of militias and the bearing of arms...







Militia in the decades following ratification


During the first two decades following the ratification of the Second Amendment, public opposition to standing armies, among Anti-Federalists and Federalists alike, persisted and manifested itself locally as a general reluctance to create a professional armed police force, instead relying on county sheriffs, constables and night watchmen to enforce local ordinances.[64] Though sometimes compensated, often these positions were unpaid – held as a matter of civic duty. In these early decades, law enforcement officers were rarely armed with firearms, using billy clubs as their sole defensive weapons.[64] In serious emergencies, a posse comitatus, militia company, or group of vigilantes assumed law enforcement duties; these individuals were more likely than the local sheriff to be armed with firearms.[64] On May 8, 1792, Congress passed "[a]n act more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States" requiring:

[E]ach and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia...[and] every citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.[119]

The act also gave specific instructions to domestic weapon manufacturers "that from and after five years from the passing of this act, muskets for arming the militia as herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound."[119] In practice, private acquisition and maintenance of rifles and muskets meeting specifications and readily available for militia duty proved problematic; estimates of compliance ranged from 10 to 65 percent.[120] Compliance with the enrollment provisions was also poor. In addition to the exemptions granted by the law for custom-house officers and their clerks, post-officers and stage drivers employed in the care and conveyance of U.S. mail, ferrymen, export inspectors, pilots, merchant mariners and those deployed at sea in active service; state legislatures granted numerous exemptions under Section 2 of the Act, including exemptions for: clergy, conscientious objectors, teachers, students, and jurors. And though a number of able-bodied white men remained available for service, many simply did not show up for militia duty. Penalties for failure to appear were enforced sporadically and selectively.[121] None is mentioned in the legislation.[119]


The first test of the militia system occurred in July 1794, when a group of disaffected Pennsylvania farmers rebelled against federal tax collectors whom they viewed as illegitimate tools of tyrannical power.[122] Attempts by the four adjoining states to raise a militia for nationalization to suppress the insurrection proved inadequate. When officials resorted to drafting men, they faced bitter resistance. Forthcoming soldiers consisted primarily of draftees or paid substitutes as well as poor enlistees lured by enlistment bonuses. The officers, however, were of a higher quality, responding out of a sense of civic duty and patriotism, and generally critical of the rank and file.[64] Most of the 13,000 soldiers lacked the required weaponry; the war department provided nearly two-thirds of them with guns.[64] In October, President George Washington and General Harry Lee marched on the 7,000 rebels who conceded without fighting. The episode provoked criticism of the citizen militia and inspired calls for a universal militia. Secretary of War Henry Knox and Vice-President John Adams had lobbied Congress to establish federal armories to stock imported weapons and encourage domestic production.[64] Congress did subsequently pass "[a]n act for the erecting and repairing of Arsenals and Magazines" on April 2, 1794, two months prior to the insurrection.[123] Nevertheless, the militia continued to deteriorate and twenty years later, the militia's poor condition contributed to several losses in the War of 1812, including the sacking of Washington, D.C., and the burning of the White House in 1814.[121]

This post was edited by Ghot on Oct 6 2017 07:42am
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Oct 6 2017 07:48am
Quote (sir_lance_bb @ Oct 6 2017 03:33pm)
the comma between militia and the people should clarify that individuals have the right to bear arms?


If you want to get purely grammatical about it: the commas make it an apposition, so it definitely means that "a well regulated militia" describes "the people". In other words, people who aren't part of a well regulated militia are not part of this amendment's scope.
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Oct 6 2017 07:59am
Quote (Leevee @ Oct 6 2017 06:48am)
If you want to get purely grammatical about it: the commas make it an apposition, so it definitely means that "a well regulated militia" describes "the people". In other words, people who aren't part of a well regulated militia are not part of this amendment's scope.



Wrong.

The whole purpose was to make sure that people had the ability to overthrow an unjust government or militia that was in power.

This post was edited by Landmine on Oct 6 2017 08:01am
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Oct 6 2017 08:07am
Quote (Landmine @ Oct 6 2017 03:59pm)
Wrong.

The whole purpose was to make sure that people had the ability to overthrow an unjust government or militia that was in power.


I'm sorry, but just saying "wrong" and then restating your opinion is not really something you can do in a debate.

Unless it's a debate between presidential candidates on national TV, of course.
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Oct 6 2017 08:09am
Quote (Leevee @ Oct 6 2017 06:07am)
I'm sorry, but just saying "wrong" and then restating your opinion is not really something you can do in a debate.

Unless it's a debate between presidential candidates on national TV, of course.


Wrong.
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Oct 6 2017 08:09am
Quote (majorblood @ Oct 6 2017 04:09pm)
Wrong.


ok sorry
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Oct 6 2017 08:09am
Quote (Leevee @ Oct 6 2017 06:09am)
ok sorry


That's better.
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Oct 6 2017 08:10am
Quote (majorblood @ Oct 6 2017 04:09pm)
That's better.


can i has broken glass ceiling nao?
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