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Sep 18 2017 05:29am
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 18 2017 03:16am)
The means of production are owned by one dynastic family. They have a monarchy or dictatorship....but I'm pretty sure they claim that god himself made their family the lords of Korea.

People dont own the means of production in NK.. One royal family controls it all.

Using North Korea as an example of socialism is like using Somalia as an example of Libertarianism. I guess we can do this in seriousness here.


Sure, I don't really care that much about the economy of North Korea. It's another failed socialist state overtaken by extremism (seems to happen every time) in my eyes and did not achieve their utopian communism. Can we agree no European countries practice socialism? Mixed economies are not socialist as the means of production are privately owned. Any state intervention on the free market capitalism doesn't change the fundamentals of a capitalistic economy.
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Sep 18 2017 05:57am
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 18 2017 06:29am)
Sure, I don't really care that much about the economy of North Korea. It's another failed socialist state overtaken by extremism (seems to happen every time) in my eyes and did not achieve their utopian communism. Can we agree no European countries practice socialism? Mixed economies are not socialist as the means of production are privately owned. Any state intervention on the free market capitalism doesn't change the fundamentals of a capitalistic economy.


I don't know about you, but I dont need to hire a cop when I need the police. I think you need to broaden your scope a bit to see what means of production the public actually owns.
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Sep 18 2017 06:05am
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 18 2017 03:57am)
I don't know about you, but I dont need to hire a cop when I need the police. I think you need to broaden your scope a bit to see what means of production the public actually owns.


you don't agree then and seem to think that mixed economies are somehow not fundamentally capitalism when the means of production are not collectively owned and the fundamental driving forces remains profit and accumulation of capital

This post was edited by majorblood on Sep 18 2017 06:11am
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Sep 18 2017 10:30am
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 18 2017 07:05am)
you don't agree then and seem to think that mixed economies are somehow not fundamentally capitalism when the means of production are not collectively owned and the fundamental driving forces remains profit and accumulation of capital


They are part capitalist part socialist. That is what mixed means, a little of each.
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Sep 18 2017 10:36am
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 18 2017 07:05am)
you don't agree then and seem to think that mixed economies are somehow not fundamentally capitalism when the means of production are not collectively owned and the fundamental driving forces remains profit and accumulation of capital


The US to a certain extent has public ownership on the means of production considering a company can be prosecuted and targeted by the government and the government is elected by the people.

So in a way, ownership is kind of muddy. Basically as with anything in this life , the power of force determines where ownership lies. Private companies might have more monetary power to hold more power but social media and technology is kind of challenging this dynamic. Will be interesting to see how the power dynamic of society shapes. I do believe we are generally becoming better people even with all this negativity and media frenzy when you look at statistics on certain basic markers.

I mean it's gotten to where in developed societies , the biggest culprits of death is disease/cancer/accidental death/suicide are all vastly higher than homicide , which to me means you could reasonably make a safe assumption that this means life has only become easier and arguably better quality and I think as long as we are able to deal with and limit climate change to certain degrees, we should continue this level of progress, at least in certain countries.
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Sep 21 2017 06:56am
Quote (majorblood @ 18 Sep 2017 09:31)
the late stage capitalism idea of communism isn't achievable without a super advanced utopian society with a magical box in every house that can produce any good or service with the touch of a button.

what people commonly understand as communism always requires an authoritarian state to seize the means of production.

socialism doesn't exist in any European countries today. They have aspects of welfare states, not actual socialism as the means of production are privately owned. The modern places that actually have socialism are complete shitholes like north korea


You mean StarTrek's Replicator? :D B)
...the StarGate's Replicator wouldn't be so much fun... :ph34r: :rofl:
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