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Jul 25 2017 02:07pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 25 Jul 2017 19:59)
feminism is strong in all of scandinavia. nonetheless, there were 53.2 reported rapes per 100,000 people in sweden in 2010, while there were just 7.3 in denmark. do you really think that the willingness to report a rape differs between sweden and denmark by a factor of 8? thats ridiculous!


What constitutes rape in those countries differs drastically and yes, it could easily differ by that much.
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Jul 25 2017 03:11pm
Quote (Scaly @ 25 Jul 2017 22:07)
What constitutes rape in those countries differs drastically and yes, it could easily differ by that much.


Quote
"A 2002 survey by Karlstad University found that 85 per cent of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape were foreign born or second-generation immigrants. And as long ago as 1996 a report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention concluded that immigrants from north Africa were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men."


as quoted from an article in the times which is now unfortunately behind a paywall. a free version of the article can be found on the homepage of the UNHCR:

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refdaily?pass=52fc6fbd5&id=568f60e65

so?! ... the UN refugee agency probably published this article on their homepage because it is full of fake news, dubious sources and unsubstantiated agitation against refugees, right? :rolleyes: :wallbash:

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 25 2017 03:14pm
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Jul 25 2017 04:51pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 25 Jul 2017 23:11)
as quoted from an article in the times which is now unfortunately behind a paywall. a free version of the article can be found on the homepage of the UNHCR:

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refdaily?pass=52fc6fbd5&id=568f60e65

so?! ... the UN refugee agency probably published this article on their homepage because it is full of fake news, dubious sources and unsubstantiated agitation against refugees, right? :rolleyes: :wallbash:


:lol:
rip scaly



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Jul 25 2017 05:24pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 25 2017 12:26pm)
yeah, well,.... "ok"... except for the 50 something million casualties and perhaps the worst break of civilization in human history. but other than that, it was ok. /s

also note that jews prior to WWII didnt commit bombings, axe/knife/sword attacks, car or truck attacks; they didnt live off of welfare paid by the others, and they didnt commit sexual violence against women at alarmingly increased rates compared to every other demographic. antisemitism in the 30s was largely based on blowing problems out of proportion, scapegoating or straight fake news. this is a very different situation compared to what we have today with the muslim and subsaharan african immigrants.


No, they owned all the banks and crashed everyone's livelihood and literally starved the European people.

They were the other, and the public can easily be persuaded to burn, gas, or hang the other if they convince them it is in the name of public safety.

All the things you listed were happening in Europe before now and will continue to happen because humans are messy defecators. We are literally going to destroy all life on earth more than likely.
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Jul 25 2017 05:25pm
Quote (ampoo @ 25 Jul 2017 23:51)
:lol:
rip scaly


Not really he completely neglected the argument about the increased rape statistics in Sweden and diverted the argument towards rape statistics from: what was it again? Immigrants? Muslims? refugees ? or North African immigrants?

And yes, local rape statistics are pretty low in Europe, any type of immigration (especially refugees) would increase it, from where ever they come from. Even from the US ! Chances for increased rape for north african countries tends to be higher than the US. (that is an assumption because the rape stats for the US is a lot higher than expected).
Thumbs up for Morocco though, they did beat most of us in 2009. The Muslim country of not raping ;) /e: Yemen seems safe as well !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

This post was edited by Knaapie on Jul 25 2017 05:37pm
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Jul 25 2017 05:38pm
I am finding it extremely ironic we're discussing politics of the middle east and africa while our congress is complaining about "tribal politics."


The only reason that Africa and the Middle East are as undeveloped as they are and are in the state they're in is tribalism. Two or more sides hate each other or another faction and go full board extermination mode on them. That side recovers while the other side weakens and does the same to them. Look at this long standing conflict between the Sunni, Shiates, Kurds, Hutu's, and Tutsie's. Its been generations of killing rather than developing education and infrastructure.

Bottom line is they would all rather chew Khat or smoke opium and kill each other than to get along and get ahead. Nothing is going to change until that changes.
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Jul 25 2017 05:40pm
Quote (Knaapie @ Jul 25 2017 06:25pm)
Not really he completely neglected the argument about the increased rape statistics in Sweden and diverted the argument towards rape statistics from: what was it again? Immigrants? Muslims? refugees ? or North African immigrants?

And yes, local rape statistics are pretty low in Europe, any type of immigration (especially refugees) would increase it, from where ever they come from. Even from the US ! Chances for increased rape for north african countries tends to be higher than the US.
Thumbs up for Morocco though, they did beat most of us in 2009. The Muslim country of not raping ;) /e: Yemen seems safe as well !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics


those stats are horribly wrong from a few of the countries i know about personally - the ones with mass graves anyway

i'd argue immigrants from japan are the least likely to increase your local rape stats

This post was edited by duffman316 on Jul 25 2017 05:40pm
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Jul 25 2017 05:48pm
Quote (duffman316 @ 26 Jul 2017 00:40)
those stats are horribly wrong from a few of the countries i know about personally - the ones with mass graves anyway

i'd argue immigrants from japan are the least likely to increase your local rape stats


Just like with Sweden we can argue about what is considered to be a rape relative to what we know and how it effects the stats.
I'll agree that letting Japanese immigrate by the masses would probably lower rape statistics. That might change if the country had been in war in the last decade..

This post was edited by Knaapie on Jul 25 2017 05:56pm
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Jul 25 2017 11:49pm
Quote (Knaapie @ 26 Jul 2017 01:25)
Not really he completely neglected the argument about the increased rape statistics in Sweden and diverted the argument towards rape statistics from: what was it again? Immigrants? Muslims? refugees ? or North African immigrants?

And yes, local rape statistics are pretty low in Europe, any type of immigration (especially refugees) would increase it, from where ever they come from. Even from the US ! Chances for increased rape for north african countries tends to be higher than the US. (that is an assumption because the rape stats for the US is a lot higher than expected).
Thumbs up for Morocco though, they did beat most of us in 2009. The Muslim country of not raping ;) /e: Yemen seems safe as well !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics


the argument about why the rape statistics of sweden increased so much is very hard to quantify in either direction. this is due to swedish authorities not being allowed to publish a breakdown of perpetrator or suspect nationality anymore in their official statistics since 2002, while many of the extensions of the definition of rape in sweden took place in 2005 and later. and I can ofc not tell you the exact differences in the legal definition of rape between sweden and denmark. yes, the swedish definition is broader, but we dont have a breakdown of rape cases by "type" of rape so that we cant tell how many percent of the rape incidents in sweden are coming from cases which rely on the extended definition and wouldnt be considered rape elsewhere.

despite this, swedish rape rates as cases per 100k inhabitants were already at around 50 in 2005 when the largest extension of the definition of rape took place. so their rape rates were already abnormally high before. the rate has since then increased to over 60 rapes per 100k. but the data about nationality is missing.

due to the lack of official data about these points, I concluded that this angle of argumentation wont get us anywhere and switched to some numbers from official swedish statistics, comparing swedish immigrants with swedish natives, ie under the same jurisdiction; and from a time when they were still giving the nationality of suspects or prison inmates.

call this "diverted from scaly's arguments" if you want. do you have anything to say about the numbers that I quoted? I'll repeat them again for you:


Quote
"A 2002 survey by Karlstad University found that 85 per cent of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape were foreign born or second-generation immigrants. And as long ago as 1996 a report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention concluded that immigrants from north Africa were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men."


migrants make up 16% of the swedish population, and back in 2002 their population share was even lower, yet they made up 85% of convicted rapists in 2002. and even the swedish national council for crime prevention, which btw is an official government agency, concluded in 1996 that immigrants from north africa were 23 times as likely to commit rape compared to swedish men. so official numbers show that the entirety of the swedish migrants, most of which are muslims and coming from the middle east or africa, are committing rape at much higher rates than swedish men, and that north africans are a particularly rape-affine subgroup.

let me know if you, or scaly or anyone else, have any good arguments against those numbers.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 25 2017 11:51pm
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Jul 26 2017 12:59am
Quote (tman65ky @ Jul 25 2017 06:38pm)
The only reason that Africa and the Middle East are as undeveloped as they are and are in the state they're in is tribalism. Two or more sides hate each other or another faction and go full board extermination mode on them. That side recovers while the other side weakens and does the same to them. Look at this long standing conflict between the Sunni, Shiates, Kurds, Hutu's, and Tutsie's. Its been generations of killing rather than developing education and infrastructure.

Bottom line is they would all rather chew Khat or smoke opium and kill each other than to get along and get ahead. Nothing is going to change until that changes.



THIS... most definitely!!!



On a side note...


How does every PaRD topic end in folks quoting rape statistics?

Rape is bad...we all agree. But while probably true, the rape statistics aren't really germane, to the situation.
Money is always the bottom line. Not rape.

The immigration issue, in the EU, the Philippines, the US...and pretty much everywhere, is just a money issue. Can we support all these immigrants, w/o lessening the quality of life in our country.
If a country feels that they can handle the immigration(s)...go for it.

I think few if any, in the long run, will opt for the open borders of yesteryear.


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