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Jul 18 2017 02:58pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 18 2017 03:56pm)
It's a poor characterization depending on what you mean by "control".

The government doesn't run the hospitals, they don't control research or pharmaceutical companies, etc. etc.

They negotiate payment and control costs.


Yep, government controlling 1/5th to 1/6th of the economy.

Very bad idea.
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Jul 18 2017 02:59pm
Quote (djman72 @ Jul 18 2017 02:58pm)
Yep, government controlling 1/5th to 1/6th of the economy.

Very bad idea.


Why is it a bad idea?
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Jul 18 2017 03:20pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 18 2017 03:59pm)
Why is it a bad idea?


It makes healthcare virtually free for All Americans (aside from the taxes each family/individual will pay). Demand will be unlimited and not capped, the system will be abused just like welfare. Waiting times to see doctors will be ridiculous even worse for specialists. Any and every ache, pain, and inconvenience will result in a "free" visit to the doctor. There is a reason why Canadians go to the US and other places for health care with problems that require any sense of urgency.

Lets not even get into how the government will pay the various physicians, services, medications/needs. Without some type of free market system, there is no competition for these services to drive down price. It's economically unsound in our system. Physicians will become government employees.

Single Payer gives all of the control to the government. When the government gets involved in things, they usually fuck it up.

Not to say our current system / pre obama care system isn't without it's faults.
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Jul 18 2017 03:26pm
Quote (djman72 @ Jul 18 2017 03:20pm)
It makes healthcare virtually free for All Americans (aside from the taxes each family/individual will pay).

Demand will be unlimited and not capped, the system will be abused just like welfare.

Waiting times to see doctors will be ridiculous even worse for specialists.

Any and every ache, pain, and inconvenience will result in a "free" visit to the doctor.

There is a reason why Canadians go to the US and other places for health care with problems that require any sense of urgency.

Lets not even get into how the government will pay the various physicians, services, medications/needs. Without some type of free market system, there is no competition for these services to drive down price.

It's economically unsound in our system. Physicians will become government employees.

Single Payer gives all of the control to the government. When the government gets involved in things, they usually fuck it up.

Not to say our current system / pre obama care system isn't without it's faults.


You seem to be a bit confused about how single payer works. For one hospitals, physicians, and pharmaceutical companies and facilities all stay private and compete. A single payer doesn't remove competition. Healthcare is actually immune to competition inherently for any service of urgency, such as heart surgery or emergency treatment. This allows the price for a heart attack to vary wildly depending on where you live despite the services being the same, and costing the same for the hospital.

I'm going to bold this because people usually ignore it. Free markets don't always lower prices. Markets will also raise the price as high as payers are willing to tolerate.

As far as people from Canada coming to the United States to get urgent care, that's not totally true, but Canada also isn't the only metric of comparison we could use. The UK has been ranked #1 in terms of timeliness of care.
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Jul 18 2017 03:29pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 18 2017 04:26pm)
You seem to be a bit confused about how single payer works. For one hospitals, physicians, and pharmaceutical companies and facilities all stay private and compete. A single payer doesn't remove competition. Healthcare is actually immune to competition inherently for any service of urgency, such as heart surgery or emergency treatment. This allows the price for a heart attack to vary wildly depending on where you live despite the services being the same, and costing the same for the hospital.

I'm going to bold this because people usually ignore it. Free markets don't always lower prices. Markets will also raise the price as high as payers are willing to tolerate.

As far as people from Canada coming to the United States to get urgent care, that's not totally true, but Canada also isn't the only metric of comparison we could use. The UK has been ranked #1 in terms of timeliness of care.


If the government is setting the price for services, how can their be competition? I'm not claiming to be an expert on healthcare, but that's how I understood it.
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Jul 18 2017 03:34pm
Quote (djman72 @ Jul 18 2017 03:29pm)
If the government is setting the price for services, how can their be competition? I'm not claiming to be an expert on healthcare, but that's how I understood it.


The competition won't be in terms of prices, it will be for offering services. Your concern with competition is price controls, but with single payer you have one entity which has huge leverage for negotiations to control prices so that's not as much of a concern.
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Jul 18 2017 04:06pm
I think a single payer system might be easier to implement in the US. Accessibility to medical care seems easier to tackle then.

There are options for competition though. We have an interesting private insurance controlled competition system.
Combining US and Dutch systems might actually improve both ^^

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/27/3/771.full
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Jul 18 2017 04:12pm
Quote (djman72 @ Jul 18 2017 02:52pm)
It is my opinion. I don't think single payer is the magical solution to US healthcare.

Care to enlighten me on why that is a poor characterization?


Magical solution. .. lol

At this point I'll take semi workable system with lower consumer side costs.
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Jul 18 2017 04:12pm
Is Obamacare a good "first step", i means for transition, to a single payer healthcare system ?
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Jul 18 2017 04:13pm
Good riddance.
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