d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > The E U ... Love It Or Leave It? > Discuss
Prev1910111213Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 17,218
Joined: Apr 26 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jul 23 2017 06:52pm
Quote (Gastly @ Jul 22 2017 11:20pm)
A+ post.

Many to most of the murders were done by the SS and/or the Wehrmacht just killing people instead of mass slaughter in concentration camps. The Nazis specifically mobilised people in order to systematically kill Jews wherever they could find them.


Babi Yar, Liepaja, Kalevi-Liiva, Ponary. Jelgava, Zmievskaya Balka <- a very limited list of names and locations to look up

The Nazis systematically tried to exterminate the Jews. The Nazi high leadership explicitly said that the extermination of the Jewish People was what they aimed towards to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posen_speeches
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard


This is all a load of shit. First of all, everything you pointed to happened pretty deep in Russian controlled territory. Any confession you have or even deaths that did occur we will simply have no reason to believe it is anything other than Russian war propaganda. People were dying all the time and war crimes were rampant during WW2. Take a look at where all of these supposed Jewish exterminations took place. The communists were not the nicest people, so who really knows. I would wager that we need to take a much harder look at those under the command of Joseph Stalin. They won the war so they get to write the history. The use of torture was also used to extract confessions, so having a confession hardly solves anything.

I find it interesting to compare an internment camp captured in American territory of German compared to the brutality supposedly found on the eastern front. Massacres happened for every single race and nationality in WW2, but to give the Jews a special name is just silly. They suffered no more than anyone else did. We weren't there, and anything that came out of Stalin's brutal regime is like believing Kim Jong Il has the world record for best golf game.

I would have you take a look at the Havaara Transfer Agreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
The Nazis were actively trying to move Jews to Israel because they did not want them in Germany. Hardly seems consistent of having plans to fully exterminate a group of people. Also consider that many of the concentration camps had things like pools and dentists and football leagues. What we know of these camps is that they do not have any semblance of anything that could function as a gas chamber. And many of the American POW's held by the Germans were returned safely. They were not brutalized like you would expect from a group committing systematic genocide.

No one is saying that atrocities did not happen. But you simply can not look at all of those examples, which happened on Russian controlled territory after the war had ended, and take them at face value. Stalin was the one with the death camps, stalin was the one who was killing his own soldiers. I don't think it adds up.
Member
Posts: 51,221
Joined: Jun 3 2010
Gold: 0.69
Warn: 50%
Jul 23 2017 08:09pm
"Jews dun it" is sooo 2015
Member
Posts: 4,783
Joined: Jul 6 2012
Gold: 68.99
Warn: 10%
Jul 23 2017 10:14pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 03:52am)
This is all a load of shit. First of all, everything you pointed to happened pretty deep in Russian controlled territory. Any confession you have or even deaths that did occur we will simply have no reason to believe it is anything other than Russian war propaganda. People were dying all the time and war crimes were rampant during WW2. Take a look at where all of these supposed Jewish exterminations took place. The communists were not the nicest people, so who really knows. I would wager that we need to take a much harder look at those under the command of Joseph Stalin. They won the war so they get to write the history. The use of torture was also used to extract confessions, so having a confession hardly solves anything.

The Nazis documented the killings themselves so... :rolleyes:
What your argument adds up to is "if we just refuse to believe any and all evidence for the Holocaust then we have no reason to believe in the Holocaust".

What proof do you have of torture being widespread in acquiring their confessions?

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 03:52am)
Massacres happened for every single race and nationality in WW2, but to give the Jews a special name is just silly. They suffered no more than anyone else did. We weren't there, and anything that came out of Stalin's brutal regime is like believing Kim Jong Il has the world record for best golf game. .

Belgian, Italian, French, Dutch etc. Jews were murdered as well tho

the Nazi high leadership literally says "we're going to kill all the Jews" and you still somehow manage to refuse to believe in the Holocaust.

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 03:52am)
Also consider that many of the concentration camps had things like pools and dentists and football leagues. What we know of these camps is that they do not have any semblance of anything that could function as a gas chamber.

You mean the plank on the water reservoir that was reserved for SS-men and Kapos?
What do you know of these camps and on what is it that you base your knowledge?
Do you also believe that the Nazis did not kill the mentally ill and the disabled?

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 03:52am)
But you simply can not look at all of those examples, which happened on Russian controlled territory after the war had ended, and take them at face value. Stalin was the one with the death camps, stalin was the one who was killing his own soldiers. I don't think it adds up.

If the Nazis themselves literally say that they committed the atrocities that they documented then there is good reason to believe that they did indeed commit the atrocities that they themselves documented.

The Soviets documented their killings as well. It's funny that they should forget to mention that it was them that killed the Jewish population of Eastern Europe.

This post was edited by Gastly on Jul 23 2017 10:33pm
Member
Posts: 17,218
Joined: Apr 26 2006
Gold: 0.00
Jul 23 2017 10:50pm
Quote (Gastly @ Jul 24 2017 04:14am)
The Nazis documented the killings themselves so... :rolleyes:
What your argument adds up to is "if we just refuse to believe any and all evidence for the Holocaust then we have no reason to believe in the Holocaust".

What proof do you have of torture being widespread in acquiring their confessions?


Belgian, Italian, French, Dutch etc. Jews were murdered as well tho

the Nazi high leadership literally says "we're going to kill all the Jews" and you still somehow manage to refuse to believe in the Holocaust.


You mean the plank on the water reservoir that was reserved for SS-men and Kapos?
What do you know of these camps and on what is it that you base your knowledge?
Do you also believe that the Nazis did not kill the mentally ill and the disabled?


If the Nazis themselves literally say that they committed the atrocities that they documented then there is good reason to believe that they did indeed commit the atrocities that they themselves documented.


Where is the documentation? Killing someone during a time of war does not necessarily validate the Holocaust either. No one is even disuputing that war crimes did not happen. But it sure seems funny that the all of the Nazi atrocities happened in areas controlled by Stalin. America didn't find any of this shit, but we have ample evidence of faking Nazi war crimes such as making human lampshades and shrunken heads, all of it bullshit.

The Holocaust is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard of. It is nothing more than taking a brutal war and twisting it to demonize the enemy to justify all of the bloodshed. Because it is quite clear that the reasons for world war two was a means to bring Germany back under control of the global financial system. Their prosperity of not having a debt backed currency was too obvious an example of the crimes of central banking, so they started a war. FDR's actions of trying to strangle Japan out of securing oil during their own war was an attempt to have them initiate an attack and have the U.S. enter the war. Nazi Germany set the example of a people, bonded by common blood and homeland, who could do all they could to create a better world for themselves and be the best they themselves could be. They instilled a sense of Nationalism that was too strong a force to be cracked apart. That is a huge threat to international agents who may want to promote war and conflict. Jews are a very small race but they are extremely over represented in all aspects of society in which they are inhabit. The percentages of things like CEOs, investment bankers, the Supreme Court, Hollywood producers, the top 1%, the list goes on. The amount of power these people yield is threatened by Nationalism, because any sane nation would want to kick them out. Their allegiance is to their people, and until recently their people never had an ethnostate. They can not operate to extract the wealth in a Nationalistic state. Because people would ask why in the hell we need debt backed currency and we would quickly be able to isolate Jews as the foreign invaders they are and end their central banking extortion. This is why Multiculturalism is pushed so hard by Jewish entities is because they can disarm you through demographic changes via immigration to the point you can never vote your own interests again. The Holocaust is a complete lie because that is the only way to stifle the debate about not only what the Nazi's did wrong, but also what the Nazi's did right!
Member
Posts: 4,783
Joined: Jul 6 2012
Gold: 68.99
Warn: 10%
Jul 24 2017 09:47am
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 07:50am)
Where is the documentation?

Nurember Trial evidence and the German Holocaust archive
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/
you can read the evidence files yourself.

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 07:50am)
But it sure seems funny that the all of the Nazi atrocities happened in areas controlled by Stalin. America didn't find any of this shit.

Factually wrong. Belgian, Italian, French, Dutch etc. Jews were murdered as well.
You can find even more atrocities if you include the non-Jewish victims. If you don't consider social democrats, the mentally ill, the retarded or other minorities people you can find atrocities that they terrorized the general civilian population with.

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Jul 24 2017 07:50am)
The Holocaust is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard of. It is nothing more than taking a brutal war and twisting it to demonize the enemy to justify all of the bloodshed. Because it is quite clear that the reasons for world war two was a means to bring Germany back under control of the global financial system. Their prosperity of not having a debt backed currency was too obvious an example of the crimes of central banking, so they started a war.

read Adam Tooze's The Wages of Destruction if you're actually interested in the Nazi economy.

The German high command: "we intend to exterminate the Jews"
you: "they didn't target the Jews and the Jews deserved it anyways and it didn't happen"
Member
Posts: 104,138
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,655.00
Aug 12 2017 10:19pm


Top UK ministers: Brexit transition cannot be back door to staying in EU

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-idUSKBN1AS0XR



Quote
LONDON (Reuters) - Britain needs a transition period to soften its exit from the European Union, but it cannot be used to stop Brexit, two senior British ministers said on Saturday.
Member
Posts: 104,138
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,655.00
Sep 5 2017 05:40pm


Top EU court seen denying eastern states' refusal to host refugees

Top EU court seen denying eastern states' refusal to host refugees
Member
Posts: 104,138
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,655.00
Sep 6 2017 06:15am
Top EU court rules eastern states must take refugees

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-easteurope/top-eu-court-rules-eastern-states-must-take-refugees-idUSKCN1BG35V



I think there is a typo in paragraph six, and it should read like this...

Quote
Italy, now the main destination for migrants risking the Mediterranean crossing, is prominent among wealthier, Western states in threatening their eastern neighbors with cutting their EU subsidies if they do NOT show solidarity by taking people in. Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico said he would still not take a quota but was ready to help in other ways.




I am also wondering if the EU court should be thinking about hardening their borders to all muslim immigration rather than trying to decide where the axe will fall, so to speak.

/e Obama tried to do the same thing about 2-3 years ago, aka telling US states how many muslim refugees they HAD to take. It didn't work out too well, when he said it either.

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 6 2017 06:19am
Member
Posts: 53,359
Joined: Jan 20 2009
Gold: 4,383.11
Sep 6 2017 07:08am
that decision will have no impact anyway
first these states have made it clear that they will not accept muslim migrants under any circumstance (and rightly so)

second, and most importantly, the illegal migrants here do not want to go to hungary or poland
send them there and they will take the next train to germany
needless to say that there are no instruments to make them stay
iirc lithuania tried something like that and agreed to accept 300 christians from iraq
a month later there was one guy left :lol:

god...just how far away from reality is the EU
Member
Posts: 104,138
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,655.00
Sep 6 2017 07:25am


I think the EU has already done it's job concerning the taking in of muslim refugees. I think the US has as well.
I don't think the EU or the US govt. have the right to direct their respective states concerning how many refugees they should take.

I think all the countries of the world should get together and make a list of all the countries that WANT muslim refugees. Then the US and the EU should help by providing transportation for those refugees to the countries that want them.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1910111213Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll