Okay.

You can still be popular and be antiestablishment.

Being popular means people enjoy your music, enjoy your message....the message the band is trying to get across...

Being popular =/= being mainstream.


Anyway, my point was that 'pop punk' is an oxymoron. You can disagree if you like, but that's my opinion.

This post was edited by BrendanSchaub on Jul 18 2017 07:18pm

Pop punk is an established genre and has been for a long time.

This means pop(as in the genre) punk
And
Pop (as in popularity) punk


There's nothing to debate.



The notion that being mainstream (or being popular)is negative is just false. Can you be a "bad" mainstream band? Yes. Can you be a "good" mainstream band? Yes.

This post was edited by stupidkid282 on Jul 18 2017 07:24pm

Did I say mainstream is inherently bad? No, and I'll thank you for not putting words in my mouth.

My point is that 'punk' is counterculture and as such cannot be mainstream. You can make punk-influenced pop music sure, but it is not 'punk'. Period.

Sorry, I meant that as a general statement as many think that way.


The Ramones didn't become less punk because they became popular.

Think of it that way.

This post was edited by stupidkid282 on Jul 18 2017 07:35pm

The Ramones were popular, but never mainstream. Same as Dead Kennedys, The Exploited, ...

This post was edited by BrendanSchaub on Jul 18 2017 07:38pm

So.....

They were and still are popular.

They are still punk.....

They didn't lose that title just because they became popular. That's my whole point.

Being mainstream in the 70s and 80s is a whole lot different than being mainstream today with all the numerous ways media can be advertised.

This post was edited by stupidkid282 on Jul 18 2017 07:41pm

I never said punk can not be popular.
I said it can not be mainstream.
These are not necessarily the same.

Anyway, it seems like we're going in circles now.

I would categorize mainstream as being more current.

So yes, mainstream can be popular. They are nearly the same thing.

But you can disagree.

Missed a good one. Stupidkid being stupid.