I don't know but the point is that it was not in the original creation. Health and wholeness is what is normal.

why should people have to change just becuz u having a weird crisis

So helping trans people to transition is helping them to be normal. Thanks for agreeing with me.

These people need mental health, not be sold lies that if they transition things will somehow be wonderful.

Nobody is saying that, and the suicide statistic you're using is disingenuous and smacks of false benevolence.

He knows it is. That's why he didn't post his source. Eaglerising.com a lovely website.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

Not sure if this report covers the suicide % of the transitioned but the 41% is surely accurate.

It's tough for me to be loving to people that call me a bigot and backwards for adhering to my Christian dogma, but deep down i want whats best for these people. They are someones son, daughter, sister, etc. I'v had depression, i'v had anxiety, uncertainty, and i'm sure they suffer from these types of emotions at an exponential level.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 3 2017 10:26pm

Whatever is best for them so they get the best mental and physical health is optimum.

The actual % of suicide is irrelevant to the main point though, which is that you're using a statistic in a disingenuous way and as a form of false benevolence whereby you project your personal opinion onto people rather than explore explanations for a higher suicide rate outside of your preconceptions.

Nobody is saying that "transition services = wonderful" to the point that they'll "reduce or eliminate the disparate suicide rate". Rather, suicidal ideation extenuates from a plethora of factors, largely connected to familial, communal and societal support and acceptance. So the transgender individual who was suicidal pre-transition services still has a greater-than-average rate of suicidal ideation post-transition services starting because the original major factors that played into depression and suicidal ideation are still present. This has been documented for some time, and most recently in the largest to-date survey of transgender people:



There are more results that detail this in more depth within the survey, but the above stats were taken from page 74 of the survey available here: http://www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/USTS-Full-Report-FINAL.PDF

It's false benevolence because you're mis-using a suicide statistic to further your own opinion on being transgender, but doing so under the guise that you're "concerned" about them. However, true concern and compassion starts with listening to people/communities themselves about what factors they've identified as leading to their disproportionate levels of depression and suicidal ideation. It is not a radical conclusion that transgender people/the transgender community know "what's best" for them.

This post was edited by Handcuffs on May 3 2017 10:38pm

Verbose response about feels and that the statistics i initially posted somehow are disingenuous when your own report pretty much quote the same numbers. It's not a shocker that a person suffering from fill in the blank is less likely to commit suicide compared to an afflicted person if they have family support, newsflash, that's true of all sub populations.

That's the whole point, they still suffer from depression, they still feel a certain way even though they have transitioned.

From your own linked article:



Of course the stigma and societal pressure accounts for good % why these people have such high suicide rates & thoughts but the mental health is an attribute that has largely been white washed from the discussion.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 3 2017 10:59pm