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Feb 8 2018 10:34am
Quote (thesnipa @ 8 Feb 2018 16:40)
good article from an economic standpoint, bad article from an actual strategic military aspect.

IMO it leans to heavily on a US vs NK match, and extrapolates debt totals and war costs based on a head to head match. That might be fine and dandy for a state like Afghanistan or Iraq but with a confirmed nuclear armed state with a much higher insurgency cost than even Iraq we're not going in without South Korean, Chinese, japanese, and Russian support. We pulled all of Japan's teeth but they can bank quite a bit, same goes for the South Koreans. 3 pronged attack from China, US, Russia is the only real plan of attack, and the rebuilding wouldn't be us bringing them freedom, it would be ceding control of the peninsula to SK. That was the crux in the ME, too radical of a change from the conquerors rather than a slight change from the same gene pool.

I dont think much of Trump as a POTUS, but i dont think in a million years he'd be foolish enough to invade NK solo. Let alone without a 100% chinese blessing and blessing from Japan and SK as they're target for a potential nuke on the way out. When i ask myself what Hitler would have done with a nuclear button in that bunker then apply it to Kim it gets scary. His generals he's surrounded by wouldn't let that happen, imo.


the problem is that both china and the US have strategic interest in keeping the status quo, as do the north koreans. and the south koreans arent that thrilled at the prospect of inheriting a completely broken down poorhouse that would require payments so high that they would pretty much cut their wealth/standard of living in half.

china: wants to extend its influence in the region, wants to reduce american influence. a unified korea under SK control which is still allied with the US would be a nightmare for china. fears massive streams of NK refugees after a war.
united states: wants to rein in chinese influence in the region, wants an excuse to keep its military presence in the region high. a unified korea under SK control which becomes neutral between the US and china would be a nightmare for them.
south korea: fears that its capital seoul, a metro of 22 million, would get hit hard by north korean artillery in a war. has to fear the tail risk of NK nukes hitting them. doesnt want to have to pay for north korea after a potential reunification.
japan: doesnt want to have to fund a war, fears the tail risk of NK nukes hitting them, wants the US to keep a strong presence in the area to rein in china.


so in the end, everyone has plenty of reasons to keep the status quo.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 8 2018 10:36am
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Feb 8 2018 10:39am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 8 2018 10:34am)
the problem is that both china and the US have strategic interest in keeping the status quo, as do the north koreans. and the south koreans arent that thrilled at the prospect of inheriting a completely broken down poorhouse that would require payments so high that they would pretty much cut their wealth/standard of living in half.

china: wants to extend its influence in the region, wants to reduce american influence. a unified korea under SK control which is still allied with the US would be a nightmare for china. fears massive streams of NK refugees after a war.
united states: wants to rein in chinese influence in the region, wants an excuse to keep its military presence in the region high. a unified korea under SK control which becomes neutral between the US and china would be a nightmare for them.
south korea: fears that its capital seoul, a metro of 22 million, would get hit hard by north korean artillery in a war. has to fear the tail risk of NK nukes hitting them. doesnt want to have to pay for north korea after a potential reunification.
japan: doesnt want to have to fund a war, fears the tail risk of NK nukes hitting them, wants the US to keep a strong presence in the area to rein in china.


so in the end, everyone has plenty of reasons to keep the status quo.


i agree status quo is the most likely. ive said that for 50 pages. im simply theorizing what a war would look like logically, not saying it's likely.

but if u think SK would be left to "fix the north" thats silly. we subsidized Japan, then 10 years later SK. They're incredibly efficient compared to China. China knows this is what we did, and would happily dole out cash.
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Feb 8 2018 06:14pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Feb 8 2018 04:40pm)
good article from an economic standpoint, bad article from an actual strategic military aspect.

IMO it leans to heavily on a US vs NK match, and extrapolates debt totals and war costs based on a head to head match. That might be fine and dandy for a state like Afghanistan or Iraq but with a confirmed nuclear armed state with a much higher insurgency cost than even Iraq we're not going in without South Korean, Chinese, japanese, and Russian support. We pulled all of Japan's teeth but they can bank quite a bit, same goes for the South Koreans. 3 pronged attack from China, US, Russia is the only real plan of attack, and the rebuilding wouldn't be us bringing them freedom, it would be ceding control of the peninsula to SK. That was the crux in the ME, too radical of a change from the conquerors rather than a slight change from the same gene pool.

I dont think much of Trump as a POTUS, but i dont think in a million years he'd be foolish enough to invade NK solo. Let alone without a 100% chinese blessing and blessing from Japan and SK as they're target for a potential nuke on the way out. When i ask myself what Hitler would have done with a nuclear button in that bunker then apply it to Kim it gets scary. His generals he's surrounded by wouldn't let that happen, imo.


Good sources indicate that the US government has, and is considering a pre-emptive strike on NK so I'd be more inclined to believe them than your logical interpretation of what you think is likely. The article states many times that Kim is probably rational based on his actions and Trump probably not, and that war in the Korean peninsula has a lowish chance of happening. Incentives aren't the be all end all when not every actor is rational, game theory 101 my friend.
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Feb 8 2018 06:42pm
Quote (dro94 @ 9 Feb 2018 01:14)
Good sources indicate that the US government has, and is considering a pre-emptive strike on NK so I'd be more inclined to believe them than your logical interpretation of what you think is likely. The article states many times that Kim is probably rational based on his actions and Trump probably not, and that war in the Korean peninsula has a lowish chance of happening. Incentives aren't the be all end all when not every actor is rational, game theory 101 my friend.


game theory 101 my friend: in a game of chicken, the actor who more convincingly paints himself in a corner or as a madman, is the one who wins.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 8 2018 06:43pm
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Feb 8 2018 06:44pm
Quote (dro94 @ Feb 8 2018 06:14pm)
Good sources indicate that the US government has, and is considering a pre-emptive strike on NK so I'd be more inclined to believe them than your logical interpretation of what you think is likely. The article states many times that Kim is probably rational based on his actions and Trump probably not, and that war in the Korean peninsula has a lowish chance of happening. Incentives aren't the be all end all when not every actor is rational, game theory 101 my friend.


I think that would hold weight if i thought trump had real power on this. In reality he needs generals and Congress. Which he doesn't have
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Feb 8 2018 06:47pm
Good interview with Japan's foreign minister

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Feb 8 2018 07:06pm
Alarm grows as norovirus outbreak explodes at Olympics; cases quadruple in days
From Tuesday to Thursday night, cases of the highly infectious bug leapt from 32 to 128.


https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/the-olympics-havent-started-yet-but-norovirus-is-already-going-for-the-gold/

Quote
Officials at the games first announced the outbreak of the virus—also called the “winter vomiting bug”—on Tuesday. Security personnel were the first to test positive, and about 1,200 of the security staff were sequestered in their rooms at the time. About 1,100 people, some non-security personnel, were still in quarantine on Thursday. South Korea deployed 900 military personnel to make up for the quarantined security workers.



Well you can color me...suspicious. <---- source NK, would be my guess.

This post was edited by Ghot on Feb 8 2018 07:08pm
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Feb 8 2018 08:32pm
Quote (Ghot @ Feb 8 2018 07:06pm)
Alarm grows as norovirus outbreak explodes at Olympics; cases quadruple in days
From Tuesday to Thursday night, cases of the highly infectious bug leapt from 32 to 128.


https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/the-olympics-havent-started-yet-but-norovirus-is-already-going-for-the-gold/




Well you can color me...suspicious. <---- source NK, would be my guess.


Maybe, maybe not. Norovirus is ridiculously contagious. It hits crowded and confined areas all the time.
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Feb 9 2018 02:10am


DOD “Red Flag” exercise ushers in GPS jamming season across West

War games in the sky, at sea, on ground block GPS to add a dose of reality.


https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/dod-red-flag-exercise-ushers-in-gps-jamming-season-across-west/

Quote
That's where the GPS jamming comes in. The US and allied military forces lean heavily on GPS navigation, especially in the air—even some weapons systems depend on GPS for guidance. But because of the relative low power of GPS signals from satellites—as we've pointed out on a number of occasions—GPS is particularly prone to jamming or spoofing.

North Korea has become particularly adept at using GPS jamming to disrupt life (and military operations) in South Korea—even affecting air traffic flying into Seoul on several occasions and causing South Korean fishing fleets to return to port out of fear of drifting into North Korean waters.



This reminds me of my childhood in the end of the Cold War Era. I know it doesn't make sense, but this gives me a warm feeling inside.

inb4 "It's just heartburn". :D
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