Quote (Leevee @ Apr 11 2017 01:51am)
AspenSniper has a point. This "all or nothing" type of system is unfair to people who make marginally more or marginally less than the limit. Additionally, it motivates poor families to send their kids to college while doing nothing for the more rich ones.
A monetary reward for getting high grades is redundant, and I don't think it's a good idea.
But at the same time, it's equally stupid to just throw free college at everyone. It will always payoff short term, but it will ruin what college is in the long run.
Quote (AspenSniper @ Apr 11 2017 07:41am)
Eh I don't want to make the university responsible for the student not being able to pay back the loan they knew they'd have to pay back. Should be on the borrower.
Yeah how does it not? My parents make $100k+ combined, so I get absolutely nothing. Oh wait no, I get full college debt without a dollar of financial aid. While a student next to me, who has parents who only make $50k/year combined gets to go to college for free. So yeah, it clear as crystal rewards that family for making less money. If a family is smart, they take a pay cut or quit their job before their kid goes to college. It'll save them probably $100k+ in not having to pay tuition.
I was a magna cum laude student, so I should support your idea, but I don't entirely. I was a polisci undergrad and I would value the 2.7 GPA of an engineering major over a 3.5 GPA of a polisci major, so it's tough to do the GPA thing depending on majors that are notoriously tougher. I'd be good with doing it based by college major, but that gets a little tougher. I agree with your thought of a bachelors degree being the new high school diploma, which is one area where I actually greatly pity the poor as it's expensive to get to the new "standard." I got my MBA to set myself apart and that masters is probably as valuable as a bachelors was in the 80s. The trade worker theory is a tough one for me. On one hand I agree. I think if you can use your brains and combine that with being an electrician or plumber you can start a nice little business and make $200k+ a year easy if you do your homework right. On the other hand, I just got a Hispanic friend of mine to get his undocumented uncle to paint my whole house for like $400. So on that hand, you'd be an idiot to get into a trade where you have people willing to do it for pennies. Zero sum game.
Haha different grading system. In American Universities to get an A you typically need a 90%+ and in many you need a 93%+ as a 90-93% is considered an A- which is worth 3.67 GPA instead of 4.0. For short, 90%+ = A, 80%+ = B, 70%+ = C, 60%+ = D, 59 or under = F/failing. Many consider a D failing too. a 73%+ is typically the average required to get a degree.
As someone who did two engineering degrees, I can agree to that. Nothing worse than seeing my classmates and myself in the lab and library til 12am-4am half the week doing basic assignments to fight for a 3.0, while my other friends who were marketing and communications majors getting trashed on a Thursday night, half ass a good chunk of their work, and still walking away with 3.3+ GPAs. That's why no matter which side we take on the college tuition issue, there will never be a fair to balance college tuition. The most fair system is for people to pay 100% of their own tuition with no government support... however the issue with that is it will shit on the poor just like we have now.
I disagree on the trades however. If it wasn't for engineering or some kind of computer based major, then I wouldn't have done college. I would have done something like welding or my original plan of either going into the marines or trying to be a NYS Trooper, although I may have done a cheap shitty degree so I can move up the ranks easier.
I worked as a project manager for plumbing/hvac contractor for a few years. I can certainly tell you, that unless you were a shitty worker or the job pool was dry for most contractors in the area, then you would get work as a tradesman. Many/most public and commercial jobs have a prevailing wage set in place to keep the labor rates competitive and very much worth doing. It's actually the commercial jobs that are suffering the most from the lack of trades workers. You will run into more of the undercutting wage stuff with illegals on domestic jobs. Even then, my father was a painter and managed to do very well, even with many underhanded tactics by his competitors, such as hiring illegals, he got plenty of work... and we have a lot of illegals and undocumented workers up here in NY.
All in all, unless you take a highly demanded bachelors or go for your masters/PhD, I see no point to college. I foresee a much more successful career for someone in the trades at the current state of things.