why not just amp -> ce?

why cant u put 20 points into skeletons? or u like to play at nm with 60 lvl?

learn pvm beta

sry didnt know about this^^



all of these builds can max CE if needed



i've checked some YT vids where it seems psn nova + LR can kill whole screens even faster than amp + CE. Master_Zappy also mentioned it in #4. Close call maybe?

also you can cast CE in between novas (they dont stack), and fire part of CE is also affected by LR iirc.

btw im not sure if boner is heavily underrated my one could do andy/meph/dia/nihla/baal in a bit more than 10 minutes... i think thats not too bad. im really curious if summon or psn can do faster. maybe ill just give it a try and post results.

anyway, the majority here seems to prefer pure summon build. thx for all your votes! more plz

This post was edited by S_M_O_K_E on Mar 23 2017 06:49pm

You can do it that way too. Sometimes in 8 player games you may need more corpses so start off with lower res + nova to weaken the crowd. Otherwise it's just your merc getting the first corpses.

Why would I need 20 points in skeletons? They add little, they are just meat shields on a poison build. I refer to my PvP poison necro who had spare points pumped into bone prison. Just 1 on skeletons for fun. Was fun to do chaos/baal with him when not duelling.

Don't stress m8.

Why skellies? Idk... because they are awesome damage adds (not little as you suggest) that make bone armor beyond the 1 point in it pointless since they serve the meatshield function that lends itself to most monsters attacking the minions before ones necro. The bone armor once it gets to a level that can take a couple hits can simply be recast if it breaks and it meets that with a single point given the huge +pnb skills a poison nec has. For pvp your setup works, but in pvm your build is much worse in total damage output ,safety, damage type diversity and would be much slower if clone pops up. A poison nec build like I suggest does that easily. Snag a dozen uders/gorebellies and profit.

+2 shako
+2 enigma
+4 torch and anni
+2 maras
+1-2 Soj's
+1 bc
+2 dweb

~15 plus skills on the poison necs gear applied to summons.

which nets thirteen level 35 skellies and mastery + level 20 might aura from merc Average DPS: 7502 before/if amp.
Plus 7 Mages, Average DPS 1272.7 before lower res
along with 16 revives.


if one used a beast golem thats brings the skellies avg dps up to ~10K free damage.




by the time you have an army up, like a in chaos run the run is over on the poison nec, our nearly so. That one poison nova cast cleared the entire screen which in a small game ce doesnt even need to be used.Cast once and move to the next screen. Its faster everywhere but boss killing/ubers and perhaps p8.



This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Mar 23 2017 09:08pm

Anyone whos played a proper summoner knows that the instant tele onto a target with your full army basically immediately produces a corpse to start your chain CE's and this build is still supplemented with decent poison damage. Pure poison would need to wait a minimum of about a second before the first corpse is produced and quite often longer so speed-wise its definitely inferior and this is before we consider killing bosses. The only place it has an edge is that it requires no "prebuffing" of summons/revives.

This post was edited by draftw3dr on Mar 23 2017 09:00pm

Summoner

What I meant is that in terms of raw speed, the summoner would win assuming he already had all the summons up (I'm assuming p8 chaos/baal/mf runs etc.)

Poison necro is definitely faster in p1-4ish but that's assuming you don't care about drops and u just nova and move on with no CE at all. In this situation, don't use a curse at all - waste of a cast animation

Do you really think I would add bone prison points on a pure PvM nec? Hehehehehe.





I was merely referring to how good even a PvP poison necro is for PvM. Thanks and good night

howdy, fellowmancers!

some testing results here from my vita nec cs/dia/baal runs @p1 sc (char lvl 90)

boner setup:

shako um
mara
eni
arach
soj
fcr/str ring
trang
aldur
hoto
spirit 35
cta6 + spirit

inv: anni/torch/sc5fhr (to hit cap with spirit)

merc:
insight 17 eth tr
ebug forty
andy 15ias/fres

stats: str to wear spirit, rest vita

skills: 1 clay/mast/resist, 1 decrep (+ prereqs), 1 bone armor, 1 teeth, max all other bone sk, rest CE

normal monsters: amp + bone spear + CE
bosses: decrep + bone spirit

runs:
06:55 3,9M xp
06:49 3,7M xp
06:18 3,6M xp
06:45 3,7M xp
06:35 3,2M xp
06:26 3,7M xp
06:52 3,9M xp
06:41 3,3M xp
06:47 3,9M xp
06:54 4,1M xp


psn setup:

hoto -> death's web 2sk rbf'ed (-51 res total)
fcr ring -> soj

merc:
insight -> infy eth tr

iron golem:
insight 17 eth tr

everything else stays same as above

skills according to Master_zappy's post (rest CE): http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=76135956&f=87&p=515047747

normal monsters: LR / amp + psn nova + CE
bosses: decrep + psn nova

casting LR, using skellies, mages, and revives:
09:41 4,2M xp
09:06 3,7M xp
08:49 3,7M xp
09:08 3,8M xp
09:44 4,0M xp

casting LR, no revives:
09:15 3,6M xp
08:49 4,0M xp
09:25 3,6M xp
09:42 4,0M xp
10:32 3,9M xp

casting amp, using skellies, mages and revives:
08:45 3,4M xp
09:45 3,8M xp
08:18 3,9M xp
08:49 3,7M xp
09:00 3,8M xp

casting amp, no revives, no mages (take care of your golem ;)):
08:49 3,7M xp
08:09 3,4M xp
09:43 3,8M xp
08:31 3,7M xp
09:01 4,1M xp

-->

both builds work quite save and there is nothing they can't kill in these runs. surprisingly (to me, at least), the psn setup killed dia/baal much faster than bone spirit. i think this is mostly due to merc's infy cb.

psn's slower overall speed could be a result of:
- lower fcr (75/125)
- time spent summoning
- not enough sk charms to get decent nova dmg
- playstyle issues

this is meant just as a quick comparison with basic setup and no further tweaking, e.g. i havent used any skillers at all. also i didnt pick up any items, only pots and some gold. plz draw your own conclusions

9 mins seems a bit long for poison - are you just casting nova and then continuing? (so you don't wait for a corpse and start using CE - just sprint for the seals) - or is the extra time happening during baal waves which you can't rush through?