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Sep 19 2016 05:40pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 02:25am)
The civil war was about slavery. derp.

Yes, the US Civil war was about slavery. Wanna argue for why do you think it wasn't about slavery? The nullification crisis didn't work out.
Simply reading the declaration of causes for the recession (as declared by the recessing states, mind you) should be enough to establish that the civil war was indeed about slavery. Mississippi, Georgia, Texas and South Carolina all explicitly stated that their reason for the secession was because of slavery.

Also, the constitution of the CSA makes an explicit reference to slavery. This reference is made after explicitly copying the constitution of the USA, with the only changes to the US constitution being those about slavery.
Article I, Sec. 9(4)
"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Article 4, Sec. 2(1
"The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

Article 4, Sec. 3(3):"
"The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates [sic]; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States."
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Sep 19 2016 06:05pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Sep 19 2016 11:31pm)
lol, the civil war wasn't about slavery, it was about states' rights (to own slaves) and economic inequality (because the south depended on slave labor economically).


It was about the North imposing Tariffs that benefibytted the North and exploited the South. It was a federal Issue that caused tensions between the North and South. Remember, the U.S. split with England over taxes, and the Southern states were being exploited by taxes. They wanted out of the Union, it literally had nothing to do with Slavery. Slavery was used as a scapegoat to allow the federal government impose it's will on the states. It was a coup on the union and federal power prevailed over state's rights.

Do you really think people fly the confederate flag because they are pro slavery? Do you really?

6% of white Americans owned slaves and those that did not hated the practice. They were forced to join round-up parties to collect run-aways against their will. Black slaves also did labor that free men could do.

So how does it make sense that the bloodiest war America has ever fought would be so bloody and contentious given that the South was fighting over slavery that only 6% of White Males enjoyed? How do you get ol' Joe Blow to get out and fight over something he had no stake in.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

Let me remind you that slavery was a very common practice at the time all over the world and that only two countries abolished slavery through war: U.S. and Haiti.

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Sep 19 2016 06:12pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 19 2016 06:05pm)
It was about the North imposing Tariffs that benefibytted the North and exploited the South. It was a federal Issue that caused tensions between the North and South. Remember, the U.S. split with England over taxes, and the Southern states were being exploited by taxes. They wanted out of the Union, it literally had nothing to do with Slavery. Slavery was used as a scapegoat to allow the federal government impose it's will on the states. It was a coup on the union and federal power prevailed over state's rights.

Do you really think people fly the confederate flag because they are pro slavery? Do you really?

6% of white Americans owned slaves and those that did not hated the practice. They were forced to join round-up parties to collect run-aways against their will. Black slaves also did labor that free men could do.

So how does it make sense that the bloodiest war America has ever fought would be so bloody and contentious given that the South was fighting over slavery that only 6% of White Males enjoyed? How do you get ol' Joe Blow to get out and fight over something he had no stake in.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

Let me remind you that slavery was a very common practice at the time all over the world and that only two countries abolished slavery through war: U.S. and Haiti.


The cause of the civil war was multifaceted, but you display your ignorance to say slavery wasn't the cause when it was literally listed by seceding states that slavery was one of their primary reasons.
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Sep 19 2016 06:18pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 20 2016 12:12am)
The cause of the civil war was multifaceted, but you display your ignorance to say slavery wasn't the cause when it was literally listed by seceding states that slavery was one of their primary reasons.


Do you expect them to say they wanted to continue to exploit the South with their majority in Congress? They knew they were writing history, why the fuck would they risk civil war without having a noble narrative? Who cares if it is listed, do you really think we were trying to spread democracy to Iraq? What will show up in their history books on the issue?
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Sep 19 2016 06:19pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 19 2016 06:18pm)
Do you expect them to say they wanted to continue to exploit the South with their majority in Congress? They knew they were writing history, why the fuck would they risk civil war without having a noble narrative? Who cares if it is listed, do you really think we were trying to spread democracy to Iraq? What will show up in their history books on the issue?


Do you know what seceding means?
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Sep 19 2016 06:20pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 03:05am)
It was about the North imposing Tariffs that benefibytted the North and exploited the South. It was a federal Issue that caused tensions between the North and South. Remember, the U.S. split with England over taxes, and the Southern states were being exploited by taxes. They wanted out of the Union, it literally had nothing to do with Slavery. Slavery was used as a scapegoat to allow the federal government impose it's will on the states. It was a coup on the union and federal power prevailed over state's rights.

What tariffs are you talking about, and why did the Nullification crisis lack support from the Southern States (it was actually about states' rights)? Apart from that, refer to my earlier post. The receding states explicitly stated that they were receding because of the issue of slavery.

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 03:05am)
and those that did not hated the practice. They were forced to join round-up parties to collect run-aways against their will. Black slaves also did labor that free men could do.

Could you possibly support this claim somehow?

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 03:05am)
So how does it make sense that the bloodiest war America has ever fought would be so bloody and contentious given that the South was fighting over slavery that only 6% of White Males enjoyed? How do you get ol' Joe Blow to get out and fight over something he had no stake in.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

It very much does, seeing that nitrocellulose and cotton gin were making a break through and that Southern American economy was very much dependent on slavery. Cotton gin is especially important here.

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 03:18am)
They knew they were writing history, why the fuck would they risk civil war without having a noble narrative?

As far as I know historiography relies on the Southern narratives as well.

This post was edited by Gastly on Sep 19 2016 06:22pm
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Sep 19 2016 06:24pm
Quote (Gastly @ Sep 20 2016 12:20am)
It very much does, seeing that nitrocellulose and cotton gin were making a break through and that Southern American economy was very much dependent on slavery.


So the Cotton Gin Comes along and the South decides to start a civil war? Capital increases production, and not needing and investing in slaves would make them even more profitable. It is stupid to think the south went to war as if Carriage Builders went to war over the model-T.

I will get back to you on the tariffs and laws shortly after a bit of research.
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Sep 19 2016 06:28pm
"alot of about american history"

ya means wisigoths invasions 350 years ago ?
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Sep 19 2016 06:30pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 03:24am)
So the Cotton Gin Comes along and the South decides to start a civil war? Capital increases production, and not needing and investing in slaves would make them even more profitable. It is stupid to think the south went to war as if Carriage Builders went to war over the model-T.

Slavery was a very profitable system in a system based on extremely low-skilled labour.

There's also the points the Southern States' very own words about their reasons to secession, along with the point of CSA's constitution.
I'd rather not get into dissecting the state of US' politics in the decades before the Civil war, but I'll tell you that it had very much to do with slavery. The presidential election prior to the secession ties in with the issue kind of heavily.

Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 20 2016 03:24am)
I will get back to you on the tariffs and laws shortly after a bit of research.

Be sure to address the nullification crisis / South Carolina after you've done your research.

Also, an additional point: the CSA actually limited states' rights when they disallowed the banning of slavery. Which they did in their constitution. The CSA fought for slavery and against states' rights.

This post was edited by Gastly on Sep 19 2016 06:36pm
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Sep 19 2016 06:32pm
Quote (tric-isHUGE @ Sep 19 2016 07:05pm)
It was about the North imposing Tariffs that benefibytted the North and exploited the South. It was a federal Issue that caused tensions between the North and South. Remember, the U.S. split with England over taxes, and the Southern states were being exploited by taxes. They wanted out of the Union, it literally had nothing to do with Slavery. Slavery was used as a scapegoat to allow the federal government impose it's will on the states. It was a coup on the union and federal power prevailed over state's rights.

Do you really think people fly the confederate flag because they are pro slavery? Do you really?

6% of white Americans owned slaves and those that did not hated the practice. They were forced to join round-up parties to collect run-aways against their will. Black slaves also did labor that free men could do.

So how does it make sense that the bloodiest war America has ever fought would be so bloody and contentious given that the South was fighting over slavery that only 6% of White Males enjoyed? How do you get ol' Joe Blow to get out and fight over something he had no stake in.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

Let me remind you that slavery was a very common practice at the time all over the world and that only two countries abolished slavery through war: U.S. and Haiti.


...exploited the South over their economy's heavy reliance on slave-manufactured crop production.

No, they generally fly the Confederate flag because they're either bigots or ignorant of how flying the flag is mostly seen as supportive of bigotry.

Virtually all issues tie into slavery. States rights devolves into trying to defend the institution of slavery against Northerners and their machinations.

Look, I agree that the Civil War was Lincoln's unconstitutional/treasonous War of Northern Aggression, but make no mistake - it was all about slavery in the end.

This post was edited by Santara on Sep 19 2016 06:32pm
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