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Nov 5 2017 08:22pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 5 2017 05:46pm)
That specific statistic about mass shootings is fake because its based on false criteria. They include and exclude events that are/arent relevant to buff the numbers.

The population has also grown over time. What matters is the per capita rate.

Youre using confirmation bias for the rest.


Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 5 2017 06:07pm)
highly illegal


this paints an incredibly misleading and inaccurate picture of what actually happened. mass shootings haven't gone up much at all.
which throws a wrench into the commentary, solutions and conclusions based off of it


Can you each share data to refute the claim that mass shootings are increasing in frequency? I've included information and links in the OP from which I generated my initial claim.

The only refutation I can seem to find online is the argument that the data hasn't been applied to the increase of population and therefore examined on a per-capita basis, which admittedly, isn't a very convincing argument to me.
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Nov 5 2017 08:26pm
Quote (nobrow @ Nov 5 2017 10:10pm)
Not a surprise coming from you, care to explain why?
its a blatant violation of 1A rights.

Quote
Speech is allowed to be restricted when it causes harm. The theory makes sense and the data supports it, the restriction is to eliminate harm.

'Saying a name equals causing harm' is a big stretch. Hes not beetlejuice.

this shit supreme court case didnt even go nearly as far as you want:
Quote (schenk SC case)
The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.


This was later overturned to an even tougher inciting 'Imminent lawless action' requirement in the Brandenburg case.

there is no clear and present danger etc saying a murderer's name on the news.

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Its the same reason you cant scream fire in a movie theater

wrong.gif

Quote
but I wouldn't be surprised if you think that should be legal

>fantasies and caricatures over intellect and knowledge

falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater is easily opposed on libertarian grounds, its a violation of property rights
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Nov 5 2017 08:29pm
this goes over the SC cases re: "fire" in a more thorough manner

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/

Quote (Handcuffs @ Nov 5 2017 10:22pm)
Can you each share data to refute the claim that mass shootings are increasing in frequency? I've included information and links in the OP from which I generated my initial claim.

The only refutation I can seem to find online is the argument that the data hasn't been applied to the increase of population and therefore examined on a per-capita basis, which admittedly, isn't a very convincing argument to me.


some examples:
http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/17/are-mass-shootings-becoming-more-common
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/04/mass-shootings-more-deadly-frequent-research-215678
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Nov 5 2017 08:34pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 5 2017 08:26pm)
its a blatant violation of 1A rights.


'Saying a name equals causing harm' is a big stretch. Hes not beetlejuice.

this shit supreme court case didnt even go nearly as far as you want:


This was later overturned to an even tougher inciting 'Imminent lawless action' requirement in the Brandenburg case.

there is no clear and present danger etc saying a murderer's name on the news.


wrong.gif


>fantasies and caricatures over intellect and knowledge

falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater is easily opposed on libertarian grounds, its a violation of property rights


The clear and present danger is the increased frequency of mass shootings. It isnt a stretch when there is a sound theory with evidence backing it. You haven't refuted the theory/evidence at all. You dislike where the logical conclusion ends so now your amygdala is taking over. You're not an idiot, just try and remove your emotions from this. What is so unreasonable about 72 hours? Would you feel less strongly about 48, 24, 12 hours? I suspect it is any restriction at all. This is the same logic behind shouting fire, we have access to data now that we didn't before.

/edit reading the links now they wernt posted before

This post was edited by nobrow on Nov 5 2017 08:34pm
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Nov 5 2017 08:44pm
Quote (CitroenC7 @ Nov 5 2017 10:33pm)


This is the most accurate one Ive seen so far
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Nov 5 2017 08:56pm
Quote (nobrow @ Nov 5 2017 10:34pm)
The clear and present danger is the increased frequency of mass shootings.

wrong. saying a shooters name is not at all a clear and present danger, let alone inciting imminent lawless action.

Quote
It isnt a stretch when there is a sound theory with evidence backing it. You haven't refuted the theory/evidence at all.

there is no sound theory backing a 72 hour ban on reporting news
there is not even a sound theory that mass shootings have in fact skyrocketed, let alone the early release of the killers' names being the cause.

Quote

You dislike where the logical conclusion ends so now your amygdala is taking over.
You're not an idiot, just try and remove your emotions from this.

slimey fantasies about me instead of considering that i might be correct /10

Quote
What is so unreasonable about 72 hours? Would you feel less strongly about 48, 24, 12 hours? I suspect it is any restriction at all.

yeah only temporary authoritarian restrictions on speech. common sense press control. the founders could not have imagined anything other than a quill and ink.
just a shorter bit of ridiculous censorship threatening to punish people for news is totally reasonable.
thats like the middle ground right? only some sort of far-right radical would be against that.

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This is the same logic behind shouting fire, we have access to data now that we didn't before.

still wrong

Quote
/edit reading the links now they wernt posted before

yeah, probably a good idea to educate yourself before spouting off nonsense about other people huh?

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Nov 5 2017 08:58pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Nov 5 2017 09:56pm)
yeah only temporary authoritarian restrictions on speech. common sense press control. the founders could not have imagined anything other than a quill and ink.
just a shorter bit of ridiculous censorship threatening to punish people for news is totally reasonable.
thats like the middle ground right? only some sort of far-right radical would be against that.


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Nov 5 2017 09:01pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 5 2017 06:44pm)
This is the most accurate one Ive seen so far


Mother Jones information is in the OP I posted, and they've also concluded that mass shootings are on the rise, citing their own analysis and a study by Harvard Public Health (also cited in OP) and a study by the FBI.
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