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Jan 29 2016 07:39pm
Do what Jesus would have done and vote republican.
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Jan 29 2016 07:54pm
I would say that if Jesus had to fit into a box of politics he would be a Anarchist. It's the only governance that is not predicated on force. I would assert that the "state" is a form of idolatry.
True charity and compassion come from the heart and voluntarily giving and helping, not through mandatory forced redistribution.


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Christian anarchism is a movement in political theology that claims anarchism is inherent in Christianity and the Gospels.[1][2] It is grounded in the belief that there is only one source of authority to which Christians are ultimately answerable, the authority of God as embodied in the teachings of Jesus, and thus rejects the idea that human governments have ultimate authority over human societies. Christian anarchists denounce the state as they claim it is violent, deceitful and, when glorified, idolatrous.[3][4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism
More than any other Bible source, the Sermon on the Mount is used as the basis for Christian anarchism.[5] Most Christian anarchists are pacifists and reject the use of violence, such as war.[3] Leo Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God Is Within You is often regarded as a key text for modern Christian anarchism.[3][6]



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Because the Golden Rule goes a step farther than the non-aggression principle, which could be paraphrased “treat others the way you want to be treated, unless they initiate force,” it follows that Jesus would not approve of the initiation of force in any situation.
https://dailyanarchist.com/2014/12/22/jesus-is-an-anarchist/
Government as we know it is inherently violent. It cannot exist without threatening, robbing, caging, and killing. None of the pawns who carry out the State’s many punishments want to be treated the way they treat others. Clearly, Statism is utterly incompatible with the Golden Rule.

It was with this truth in mind that the Russian novelist Leo Tolstoy wrote:

“All State obligations are against the conscience of a Christian—the oath of allegiance, taxes, law proceedings, and military service. And the whole power of the government rests on these very obligations. Revolutionary enemies attack the government from without. Christianity does not attack it at all, but, from within, it destroys all the foundations on which government rests.”

As if that wasn’t clear enough, a few pages later he stated:

“Christianity in its true sense puts an end to government…no honest and serious-minded man of our day can help seeing the incompatibility of true Christianity—the doctrine of meekness, forgiveness of injuries, and love—with government, with its pomp, acts of violence, executions, and wars. The profession of true Christianity not only excludes the possibility of recognizing government, but even destroys its very foundations.”



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Jacques Ellul, a French philosopher and Christian anarchist, notes that the final verse of the Book of Judges (Judges 21:25) states that there was no king in Israel and that "everyone did as they saw fit".[7][8][9] Subsequently, as recorded in the first Book of Samuel (1 Samuel 8) the people of Israel wanted a king "so as to be like other nations".[10][11] God declared that the people had rejected him as their king. He warned that a human king would lead to militarism, conscription and taxation, and that their pleas for mercy from the king's demands would go unanswered.


This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Jan 29 2016 08:07pm
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Jan 29 2016 08:08pm
Quote (Master_Zappy @ Jan 29 2016 07:54pm)
I would say that if Jesus had to fit into a box of politics he would be a Anarchist. It's the only governance that is not predicated on force. I would assert that the "state" is a form of idolatry.
True charity and compassion come from the heart and voluntarily giving and helping, not through mandatory forced redistribution.


Ummm.... Jesus explicitly gave the state authority to tax. Obeying authority figures is ALL OVER the bible. The last thing he would be is an anarchist.
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Jan 29 2016 08:18pm
Obviously Jesus was a socialist, anarcho socialist is maybe acceptable too...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

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"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions were his own, but they shared everything they had."


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Jan 29 2016 08:19pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 29 2016 09:08pm)
Ummm.... Jesus explicitly gave the state authority to tax. Obeying authority figures is ALL OVER the bible. The last thing he would be is an anarchist.



I know the references you make, and I cannot dispute them, but if you only look at Jesus's texts and then apply moral consistency I feel my point stands true. I am hardly a christian scholar, but voluntary interactions, the golden rule , forgiveness and compassion seems more inline with the Jesus I could respect.

I think if you check out the Christian anarchism movement with some of its more popular texts you'll come away with the same take.


If you read the sermon on the mount most of the greater points seem incompatible with statism.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205-7

This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Jan 29 2016 08:27pm
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Jan 29 2016 08:40pm
Quote (Master_Zappy @ Jan 29 2016 09:19pm)
I know the references you make, and I cannot dispute them, but if you only look at Jesus's texts and then apply moral consistency I feel my point stands true. I am hardly a christian scholar, but voluntary interactions, the golden rule , forgiveness and compassion seems more inline with the Jesus I could respect.

I think if you check out the Christian anarchism movement with some of its more popular texts you'll come away with the same take.


If you read the sermon on the mount most of the greater points seem incompatible with statism.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205-7


...there is a very common misunderstanding imo of the Beatitudes delivered during the Sermon on the Mount so I am going to toss in something that provides a completely different slant .

While they have clearly been usurped by Christianity as a model of behavior they are in fact a description of what can be considered the " Constitution " of the Millennial Kingdom when Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem . These are teachings delivered by the Jewish Messiah to an audience of Jews and should not in any way be construed as the metric by which saved Christians will be rewarded .
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Jan 29 2016 09:07pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jan 29 2016 09:40pm)
...there is a very common misunderstanding imo of the Beatitudes delivered during the Sermon on the Mount so I am going to toss in something that provides a completely different slant .

While they have clearly been usurped by Christianity as a model of behavior they are in fact a description of what can be considered the " Constitution " of the Millennial Kingdom when Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem . These are teachings delivered by the Jewish Messiah to an audience of Jews and should not in any way be construed as the metric by which saved Christians will be rewarded .


This is an interesting point, one I'd never considered and something I'd defer to your greater knowledge and practice on. The wisdom of the beatitudes rings true and is usurped by Christians precisely because of its high ideals for love and compassion. I cannot comment on this as a metric on the Gospel of Salvation and it's reward.

the practices of the state seem incongruous to the teachings about the generally held principles of turn the other cheek, follow the golden rule, war waged for economic/imperial reasons in contradiction of the christian doctrine of just warfare. Forced redistribution isnt an act of charity which rules out socialism. It's unlikely any here will see eye to eye with me on this assertion, but it feels true to me. Enforcement of victimless crimes which put Jesus on the stake is another example I could point out. The state is hardly loving and compassionate, most would say its corrupt both in his times all through history and in current times. My Jesus wouldnt condone violence and corruption and allow it to flourish so. How is today's system different from the Money-changers Jesus cast out of the temple.

This post was edited by Master_Zappy on Jan 29 2016 09:12pm
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Jan 29 2016 09:16pm
Quote (Master_Zappy @ Jan 29 2016 10:07pm)
This is an interesting point, one I'd never considered and something I'd defer to your greater knowledge and practice on. The wisdom of the beatitudes rings true and is usurped by Christians precisely because of its high ideals for love and compassion. I cannot comment on this as a metric on the Gospel of Salvation and it's reward.

the practices of the state seem incongruous to the teachings about the generally held principles of turn the other cheek, follow the golden rule, war waged for economic/imperial reasons in contradiction of the christian doctrine of just warfare. Forced redistribution isnt an act of charity which rules out socialism. It's unlikely any here will see eye to eye with me on this assertion, but it feels true to me. Enforcement of victimless crimes which put Jesus on the stake is another example I could point out.


...I once believed as most of mainstream Christianity does until I was introduced to the discipline or study of dispensationalism . It was as if scales literally fell from my eyes as it opened up for me a much deeper understanding of Jesus' dual but separate roles as Messiah to Israel and Savior to mankind . It also answered in very short order untold scores of questions I had struggled with for more than a decade .
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Jan 30 2016 05:40am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jan 30 2016 04:16am)
...I once believed as most of mainstream Christianity does until I was introduced to the discipline or study ofdispensationalism . It was as if scales literally fell from my eyes as it opened up for me a much deeper understanding of Jesus' dual but separate roles as Messiah to Israel and Savior to mankind . It also answered in very short order untold scores of questions I had struggled with for more than a decade .



Ever feel like you've wasted your life? :D
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Jan 30 2016 06:11am
Quote (Master_Zappy @ Jan 29 2016 08:54pm)
I would say that if Jesus had to fit into a box of politics he would be a Anarchist. It's the only governance that is not predicated on force. I would assert that the "state" is a form of idolatry.
True charity and compassion come from the heart and voluntarily giving and helping, not through mandatory forced redistribution.


I would argue that capitalism is far more idolatrous than socialism, and it is predicated on greed which many consider a mortal sin.
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