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#1931
Jan 4 2018 08:44pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 5 2018 10:36am)
Are there any external factors that can change a decision made by God? It would seem a logical conclusion that God cannot be changed by anything since he knows everything that will happen in advance.


There are a few cases in the Bible where God is about to put a person (or city) to death then he changes his mind.

An example of this is Exodus 4:18-26. God was going to put Moses to death in verse 24. The only reason he stopped is that Zipporah cut off Moses's foreskin and touched his feet with it in verse 25.
Another example is in the book of Jonah where Jonah goes to Nineveh and calls out, in Jonah 3:4 - Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

In verse 5 it tells us that Nineveh believed God and called for a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them. Nineveh repented.
Then in Jonah 3:10 - When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

So from those 2 examples we can see that when a person repents their sin and turns from their evil ways, that is a key factor that can change a decision made by God to withhold his judgement.
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#1932
Jan 4 2018 08:48pm
Quote (CPK001 @ Jan 4 2018 08:44pm)
There are a few cases in the Bible where God is about to put a person (or city) to death then he changes his mind.

An example of this is Exodus 4:18-26. God was going to put Moses to death in verse 24. The only reason he stopped is that Zipporah cut off Moses's foreskin and touched his feet with it in verse 25.
Another example is in the book of Jonah where Jonah goes to Nineveh and calls out, in Jonah 3:4 - Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

In verse 5 it tells us that Nineveh believed God and called for a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them. Nineveh repented.
Then in Jonah 3:10 - When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

So from those 2 examples we can see that when a person repents their sin and turns from their evil ways, that is a key factor that can change a decision made by God to withhold his judgement.


Does God actually change his mind though? Because God knew this would happen in advance.
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#1933
Jan 4 2018 08:56pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 5 Jan 2018 05:48)
Does God actually change his mind though? Because God knew this would happen in advance.


God will respond. If somebody changes, God will change his attitude towards him/her

This post was edited by the_rest on Jan 4 2018 08:58pm
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#1934
Jan 4 2018 09:39pm
God this god that, not that bad little video here
What happened in european countries will happend to usa (and is probably already happening); the only remains will mostly be apologists & extremists ones.

SAD :)



im so glad.
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#1935
Jan 5 2018 08:13am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Jan 4 2018 10:39pm)
God this god that, not that bad little video here
What happened in european countries will happend to usa (and is probably already happening); the only remains will mostly be apologists & extremists ones.

SAD :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKT5TFkfrE

im so glad.


We're going from white Christian America to brown Christian America.
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#1936
Jan 5 2018 08:25am
Quote (CPK001 @ 4 Jan 2018 06:16)
14th May 1948, Israel declared independence. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon invaded Israel. Bear in mind this is three years after the holocaust. As such, they were outnumbered 20 million to 1 million. Yet Israel not only won the war but expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

That is all well and good until you discover that the Bible foretold this. In fact, there were 10 Prophecies fulfilled in 1948.

  • 1 - The descendants of Jacob would regain control of Israel

    Amos 9:14-15 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

    Written: about 750 BC

    Amos says that there would come a time when the exiles of Israel would once again have Israel as their own land and not only that but they would never be uprooted again.
  • 2 - Israel would be brought back to life

    Ezekiel 37:10-14 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army. Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

    Written: Sometime between 593-571 BC

    The Prophet Ezekiel receives a vision where Israel is seen as a scattering of dried-up bones. God tells Ezekiel that the bones would be brought back to life. The Jews have been brought back to the land, and the country of Israel has been brought back to life as they have re-established sovereignty in 1948, merely three years after the end of the holocaust.
  • 3 - Israel being reborn in a single day

    Isaiah 66:7-8 - “Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.”

    Written: between 701-681 BC

    Isaiah prophesies the re-birth of Israel in 1948. The description is like a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This is exactly what happened on 14th May 1948 when Israel declared independence as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in over 2900 years.

    A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Israel worldwide to move to Israel, which was called Palestine at that time. Within hours of the declaration of independence, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
  • 4 - Israel would be re-established as a united nation

    Ezekiel 37:21-22 - and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    The Sovereign Lord says that he will take the Israelites out of the nations and gather them from all around the world, bring them back into their own land and make them one nation in the land. At that time, the people of Israel had already divided themselves into two separate kingdoms and many were forced into exile by foreign invaders. There is no doubt that this would have been a shock for Ezekiel.
  • 5 - The second Israel would be more impressive than the first

    Jeremiah 16:14-15 - “However, the days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when men will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    Jeremiah prophesies that the second Israel would be more impressive than the first. In many regards, it is. The first time Israel was established as a country was after Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. The second time Israel was established was after they were scattered far and wide for a few thousand years.
  • 6 - Ezekiel predicted whenIsrael would be re-established

    Ezekiel 4:3-6 - Then take an iron pan, place it as an iron wall between you and the city and turn your face toward it. It will be under siege, and you shall besiege it. This will be a sign to the house of Israel. “Then lie on your left side and put the sin of the house of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the house of Israel. “After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.

    Written 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel told the Israelites, who had lost control of their homeland, that they would be punished for 430 years. It is from this that we can pinpoint 1948, the rebirth of Israel. Grant R. Jeffrey explains it further.

    1 - Ezekiel said Israel would be punished for 430 years because they turned away from God. Israel lost control of their homeland to Babylon.
    2 - Babylon was later conquered by Cyrus in 539 BC. Cyrus allowed Israel to leave Babylon and to return to their homeland but only a small number returned. This return took place around 536 BC, about 70 years after Judah lost independence to Babylon.
    3- Because most of the exiles chose to stay in Babylon rather than returning to the Holy Land, the remaining 360 years of their punishment was multiplied by 7. The book of Leviticus explains why.

    Leviticus 26:18 - "If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:21 - "If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve."
    Leviticus 26:24 - "I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over."
    Leviticus 26:28 - "then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over."

    So from here we need to do some Mathematics. 360 * 7 = 2520 years. However, these years are based on a 360-day lunar calendar because that's how they worked out years in the Bible. What we need to do now is convert that to a modern day calendar of 365.25 so let's do it.

    2520 * 360 = 907,200
    907,200 / 365.25 = 2,483.8 (round .77 to .8)

    So now we add 2483.8 to 536.4 BC.
    -536.4 + 2483.8 = 1947.4.
    However, since there is no year between 1BC and 1AD (No zero) We add +1 to make up for that!
    1947.4 + 1 = 1948.4!

    Israel was proclaimed as a nation on 14th may 1948.
  • 7 - The people of Israel would return to "their own land"

    Ezekiel 34:13 - I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.

    Written: between 593-571 BC

    Ezekiel says that God would gather the people of Israel scattered throughout the world and bring them into their own land. Millions of Israel returned after they declared independence in 1948. So millions of exiles returned to their ancient homeland which was now truly their own land in the sense that it is now a sovereign Jewish state.
  • 8 - God will watch over the people of Israel

    Jeremiah 31:10 - “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: ‘He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’

    Written: Between 626-586 BC

    The LORD declares that he would one day gather all of Israel and that he would watch over them like a Shepherd does his sheep. There is evidence that God has indeed watched over re-established nation of Israel. Mere hours after Israel declared independence in 1948, the surrounding countries attacked. Israel was outnumbered but Israel prevailed in the war and were able to capture additional land. Not only that but Israel prevailed in two other major wars that followed.
  • 9 - Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful

    Leviticus 26:3, 7-8 - “If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.”

    Written: about 1400 BC

    If the people of Israel are obedient to The LORD then the Bible says that 5 of them would be able to chase away 100 people and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof of this? Let's look at three examples.

    Example 1: Within hours of Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, they were attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon. The combined population was at least 20 million whereas Israel had fewer than 1 million in population. Israel won the war and expanded the size of their borders by 50 percent.

    Example 2: In 1967, Israel attacked the air force bases of the surrounding countries and took control of Jerusalem for the first time in over 2000 years. Not only did they seize additional territory but the war only lasted 6 days.

    Example 3: On 6th October 1973, Israel was attacked by Egypt and Syria. Other countries later joined the attack but Israel were able to push back the attacking armies and occupy land outside of Israel's borders.
  • 10 - The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored

    Deuteronomy 30:3-5 - then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

    Written: about 1400 BC

    The Bible says that Israel would be scattered worldwide and later return to their homeland and have their fortunes restored. Many of the Israelites returned to Israel from as far as China, United States, Russia and South Africa. Israel declared independence in 1948. Today, Israel is among the world's most prosperous countries.


There is the full list for you to ponder. If all this does not convince you then I don't know what will.

Oh and ofcourse I will list my references for you.

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/articles/1948PropheciesFulfilled.html
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/history-07.htm
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/six-day-war-ends
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/arab-israeli-war-of-1973-what-happened-171005105247349.html


I'm not arguing ten at once. Which do you find most convincing?
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#1937
Jan 6 2018 02:47am
Quote (Scaly @ Jan 6 2018 12:25am)
I'm not arguing ten at once. Which do you find most convincing?


Rank them? I'll say straight away that they all complement each other. As a whole they produce one solid and convincing case. I'll play along though.

The moment this all became mind blowing is when I tested the mathematical aspect of it which is point 6. The first two links I provided is where I received that information.

The next most convincing would be point 7 where it says that Israel would return to their own land as they would be gathered from all countries around the world.

The third most convincing point would be point 9 where Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful. Israel were vastly outnumbered and yet there are three examples where Israel won the wars against their surrounding countries.
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#1938
Jan 6 2018 01:07pm
Quote (CPK001 @ 6 Jan 2018 05:47)
Rank them? I'll say straight away that they all complement each other. As a whole they produce one solid and convincing case. I'll play along though.

The moment this all became mind blowing is when I tested the mathematical aspect of it which is point 6. The first two links I provided is where I received that information.

The next most convincing would be point 7 where it says that Israel would return to their own land as they would be gathered from all countries around the world.

The third most convincing point would be point 9 where Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful. Israel were vastly outnumbered and yet there are three examples where Israel won the wars against their surrounding countries.


All this theological and historical subject matter is interesting, but I ask you,
Where are the works in the well?

Never forget that out of charity there is no salvation. :hug:
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#1939
Jan 7 2018 05:05am
Quote (El Shadday @ Jan 7 2018 05:07am)
All this theological and historical subject matter is interesting, but I ask you,
Where are the works in the well?

Never forget that out of charity there is no salvation. :hug:


I do not understand.
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#1940
Jan 9 2018 05:49pm
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