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Dec 5 2015 08:36am
Quote (Kerzhakov @ Dec 4 2015 10:04am)
Wasn't IN the Ukraine.

Putin was involved of course but Russian troops never entered the Ukraine.

I could post a short video that will open peoples eyes, not only about what could have happened with Ukraine but also whats happening in the world right now, and how Islam will rule this planet very soon.


Lol! Such a good little soldier, backpedaling to cover up your previous assertions to the contrary. Did you get in trouble with your superiors for admitting you were in the Ukraine?
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Dec 5 2015 04:45pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 5 2015 07:36am)
Lol! Such a good little soldier, backpedaling to cover up your previous assertions to the contrary. Did you get in trouble with your superiors for admitting you were in the Ukraine?



Regardless of Russian intervention in Ukraine, the initial provocation came from United States. Ukraine to Russia is the equivalent to Canada for the United States. The strategic importance of getting Ukraine in our camp was Russia would of lost their biggest Black Sea base in Sevastopol because Ukraine (at the request of US and friends) would've not have renewed the ports leaSe to Rusia. In effect their they would of lost dominance of the Black Sea and would of hindered Russian naval personnel to freely go to the ME and Mediterranean.
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Dec 5 2015 11:20pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 5 2015 05:45pm)
Regardless of Russian intervention in Ukraine, the initial provocation came from United States. Ukraine to Russia is the equivalent to Canada for the United States. The strategic importance of getting Ukraine in our camp was Russia would of lost their biggest Black Sea base in Sevastopol because Ukraine (at the request of US and friends) would've not have renewed the ports leaSe to Rusia. In effect their they would of lost dominance of the Black Sea and would of hindered Russian naval personnel to freely go to the ME and Mediterranean.


This wouldn't have happened. Ukraine would not have been in a position to provoke Russia, nor would the United States have encouraged the instability that would bring.

The United States does want to see a Ukraine that is more prosperous and Western-oriented. This threatens Putin, who relies on the relative prosperity of Russia vis-a-vis its neighbors to shore up domestic support.
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Dec 6 2015 10:32am
Quote (Scaly @ Dec 3 2015 10:27pm)
Love when people say shit like 'You won't hear about this in the mainstream media...' over a clip of the mainstream media covering the story.


Lol yeah me too. Especially when it is Right Wingers with self-persecution complexes saying it when almost all media news leans right except 2 cable news stations. Talk radio is practically KKK militia radio and Fox News is the largest stakeholder in for-sale news on the market.

These are people who act like whites are being discriminated against and oppressed, and that men have it harder than women, and that the white man's burden is really a burden, and that life on welfare is all lobster 40s and Cadilliacs even though the average family receiving welfare benefits is a white family in the suburbs who are underemployed and I know this because I am a gatekeeper for state benefits and we have to know these things. They are going to vote for people who send away their jobs, take away their health care, give their homes to the bank, and shit all over their kids schools by replacing their teachers with interns in chronically under-performing for-profit charter schools. They will call people traitors and statists for having things like rural electricity, social security, libraries, public transit, nutritional programs for low income families, and anything done for anything else than personal enrichment or the profit motive.

Quote (Kerzhakov @ Dec 4 2015 12:14am)
Putin didnt invade ukraine


We've always been at war with Eurasia. You're compromised.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 5 2015 05:45pm)
Regardless of Russian intervention in Ukraine, the initial provocation came from United States. Ukraine to Russia is the equivalent to Canada for the United States. The strategic importance of getting Ukraine in our camp was Russia would of lost their biggest Black Sea base in Sevastopol because Ukraine (at the request of US and friends) would've not have renewed the ports leaSe to Rusia. In effect their they would of lost dominance of the Black Sea and would of hindered Russian naval personnel to freely go to the ME and Mediterranean.


Ukraine has the right to self-determination, it isn't a Russian vassal-state like Putin claims. NATO may need to remind Putin the USSR is no more.

This post was edited by Skinned on Dec 6 2015 10:36am
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Dec 6 2015 10:50am
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 6 2015 09:32am)
Lol yeah me too. Especially when it is Right Wingers with self-persecution complexes saying it when almost all media news leans right except 2 cable news stations. Talk radio is practically KKK militia radio and Fox News is the largest stakeholder in for-sale news on the market.

These are people who act like whites are being discriminated against and oppressed, and that men have it harder than women, and that the white man's burden is really a burden, and that life on welfare is all lobster 40s and Cadilliacs even though the average family receiving welfare benefits is a white family in the suburbs who are underemployed and I know this because I am a gatekeeper for state benefits and we have to know these things. They are going to vote for people who send away their jobs, take away their health care, give their homes to the bank, and shit all over their kids schools by replacing their teachers with interns in chronically under-performing for-profit charter schools. They will call people traitors and statists for having things like rural electricity, social security, libraries, public transit, nutritional programs for low income families, and anything done for anything else than personal enrichment or the profit motive.



We've always been at war with Eurasia. You're compromised.



Ukraine has the right to self-determination, it isn't a Russian vassal-state like Putin claims. NATO may need to remind Putin the USSR is no more.



Lmao "self determination". When the CIA is crawling in the Ukraine drumming up support for a coup bpro western puppetsthat's not self determination. I'm sure you'll once again mock and say that since you didn't read this on cnn it must not be true.

How about you open up a history book on us interventions and foreign policy in the last 60 years and enlighten yourself of all the "self determination" we've encouraged around the world funding dictators and overthrowing democratically elected leaders because they aren't friendly to our agendas.

Also nato will do no such thing. Europe is too intertwined with Russia economically. There will come a point when many Central European countries will move towards Russia and away from US hegemony.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 6 2015 10:51am
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Dec 6 2015 10:58am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 6 2015 11:50am)
Lmao "self determination". When the CIA is crawling in the Ukraine drumming up support for a coup bpro western puppetsthat's not self determination. I'm sure you'll once again mock and say that since you didn't read this on cnn it must not be true.

How about you open up a history book on us interventions and foreign policy in the last 60 years and enlighten yourself of all the "self determination" we've encouraged around the world funding dictators and overthrowing democratically elected leaders because they aren't friendly to our agendas.

Also nato will do no such thing. Europe is too intertwined with Russia economically. There will come a point when many Central European countries will move towards Russia and away from US hegemony.


So you're saying that CIA organizers can go into a country, and with no popular support create an insurgency that eventually won an election (the regime had to commit fraud in) that has pushed another entrenched foreign power out?

You really overestimate the influence a few Americans can have on a region. I know we Americans are exceptional, but we're not that exceptional.

And they aren't going to go to Russia because Russia is running out of Petrodollars. We know that because Putin is having oligarchs in his kleptocracy arrested for stealing. The party there is over.

Quote
Probably the most serious international crisis since the end of the Cold War, and the White House targets individuals. Why this response? Because at last, after fourteen years of dealing with President Vladimir Putin as a legitimate head of state, the U.S. government has finally acknowledged publicly what successive administrations have known privately — that he has built a system based on massive predation on a level not seen in Russia since the tsars. Transparency International estimates the annual cost of bribery to Russia at $300 billion, roughly equal to the entire gross domestic product of Denmark, or thirty-seven times higher than the $8 billion Russia expended in 2007 on “national priority projects” in health, education, and agriculture. Capital flight, which officially has totaled approximately $335 billion since 2005, or about 5 percent of GDP, reaching over $50 billion in the first quarter of 2014 alone, has swollen Western bank coffers but made Russia the most unequal of all developed and emerging economies (BRIC: Brazil, Russia, India, China), in which 110 billionaires control 35 percent of the country’s wealth.

And these billionaires, far from being titans of industry motoring the modernization of the Russian economy, have secured and increased their wealth by relying on and bolstering the centralized power of the state. The wealth of the oligarchs and political elites who came to power with Putin in 2000 has been more stable than in any other G7 country; they have made millions, though some have also lost as much. Political leaders close to Putin have become multimillionaires, and the oligarchs around them, according to Forbes Russia, have become billionaires. They are able to maintain that power and wealth as long as they don’t challenge Putin politically. Under this system, the state absorbs the risk, provides state funds for investment, and gives those close to the Kremlin massive monetary rewards. With the return under Putin to state capitalism, the state nationalizes the risk but continues to privatize the rewards to those closest to the president in return for their loyalty.


Pretty much describes the US before The New Deal. The crash is coming. The US and Europe will be taking in Russian economic refugees before Putin is dead. Eastern Europeans won't reverse course and go back to the USSR, they fought too hard to be free of their yoke.

This post was edited by Skinned on Dec 6 2015 11:08am
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Dec 6 2015 11:09am
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 6 2015 09:58am)
So you're saying that CIA organizers can go into a country, and with no popular support create an insurgency that eventually won an election (the regime had to commit fraud in) that has pushed another entrenched foreign power out?

You really overestimate the influence a few Americans can have on a region. I know we Americans are exceptional, but we're not that exceptional.

And they aren't going to go to Russia because Russia is running out of Petrodollars. We know that because Putin is having oligarchs in his kleptocracy arrested for stealing. The party there is over.


... It's not hard to win an election when Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea, the strongholds of Pro Russian support aren't part of the vote. There's a reason why a short time before the Ukrainians chose a pro Russian candidate over a pro western one. And you seriously underestimate the CIA and the power of the allmoghty dollar.

I know Europe will move towards Russia because Europe is moving towards the right. Look at recent elections in Europe. Poland, Hungary etc. are all electing right wing candidates. Marine la pen and other conservatives in France are looking to pick up seats in the French parlament. Many of these right wingers are not only pro Russian and revere Putin but are also funded by him. Putin made significant "loans" to marine le pen look it up friend.

France votes in first election since Paris attacks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35018849
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Dec 6 2015 11:16am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 6 2015 12:09pm)
... It's not hard to win an election when Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea, the strongholds of Pro Russian support aren't part of the vote. There's a reason why a short time before the Ukrainians chose a pro Russian candidate over a pro western one. And you seriously underestimate the CIA and the power of the allmoghty dollar.

I know Europe will move towards Russia because Europe is moving towards the right. Look at recent elections in Europe. Poland, Hungary etc. are all electing right wing candidates. Marine la pen and other conservatives in France are looking to pick up seats in the French parlament. Many of these right wingers are not only pro Russian and revere Putin but are also funded by him. Putin made significant "loans" to marine le pen look it up friend.

France votes in first election since Paris attacks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35018849


That's happening because the economy sucks, the Euro is going through its predicted growing pains, and when the economy picks up the shift to the Right will stop like it always does.

Another Great Depression would have to happen for Europe to shift that far right.

In GDP per capita Hungary and Poland are both more wealthy than Russia....as is the average Greek, Slovakian, Estonian, Lithuanian, even the Czech Republic has more wealthy citizens than Russia, who is on the decline.

This post was edited by Skinned on Dec 6 2015 11:20am
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Dec 6 2015 11:34am
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 6 2015 10:16am)
That's happening because the economy sucks, the Euro is going through its predicted growing pains, and when the economy picks up the shift to the Right will stop like it always does.

Another Great Depression would have to happen for Europe to shift that far right.

In GDP per capita Hungary and Poland are both more wealthy than Russia....as is the average Greek, Slovakian, Estonian, Lithuanian, even the Czech Republic has more wealthy citizens than Russia, who is on the decline.



I don't think economic decline is the main reason. You might not agree but I think the euros are moving towards the right because many ethnic euros do not want unbridled
immigration and are pretty sick of Brussels dictating policy.

And look I'm not pro Russian or pro Putin. I know he's a bad guy.I was born in Eastern Europe and my grandmother grew up in Siberia because her family was rich when the communists came to her town so they got shipped off.I have no pro Russian agenda I'm pedaling I just like to view things objectively. It just annoys me when people view geopolitics from a strictly western narrative which is so far from the truth to be honest with you.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 6 2015 11:35am
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Dec 6 2015 11:48am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 6 2015 12:34pm)
I don't think economic decline is the main reason. You might not agree but I think the euros are moving towards the right because many ethnic euros do not want unbridled
immigration and are pretty sick of Brussels dictating policy.

And look I'm not pro Russian or pro Putin. I know he's a bad guy.I was born in Eastern Europe and my grandmother grew up in Siberia because her family was rich when the communists came to her town so they got shipped off.I have no pro Russian agenda I'm pedaling I just like to view things objectively. It just annoys me when people view geopolitics from a strictly western narrative which is so far from the truth to be honest with you.


Europe always shifts to the Right when the times are bad. So does the US. Look at how popular Glen Beck was when our economic crisis was at its worse. Now things are a little better and nobody knows who he is.

Europe shifted to the right because its governments imposed austerity on their citizens to pay off their wealthy classes and this always fans the nationalist populist flames.

They were shifting right before the Syrians came. Of course new minorities are being blamed for old problems, as the Right tends to do.

This post was edited by Skinned on Dec 6 2015 11:48am
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