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Aug 19 2015 04:36pm
There's no reason to even acknowledge such a stupid charge, let alone waste the time to refute it when the pesky details used to do so will predictably just be reflexively ignored by you. You've already established that as the conclusion to this interaction by brushing off literally every piece of evidence that has been produced in this (over)investigated matter. Now we have to lurch even farther away from the initial bogus claims because they were unsurprisingly debunked. The Senators did it!!!!1111one

Like I said there's nowhere else to go with this. That's the dilemma that everyone faces when they choose to interact with a fundamentally delusional, misinformed individual. We just have to sit here and wave when you inevitably head off on one of your little "choose your own reality" adventures.

Edit: You just tell me if I need to pretend that the regular correspondence that all U.S. Senators have with government agencies constitutes them giving them direction to do something that has already been disproven, and I'll play along. I sure am glad Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul forwarded those memos a couple of years back, because otherwise those Guantanamo detainees would have kept getting their G.I. Bill benefits!

This post was edited by Pollster on Aug 19 2015 04:51pm
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Aug 19 2015 05:27pm
Quote (Pollster @ Aug 19 2015 05:36pm)
There's no reason to even acknowledge such a stupid charge, let alone waste the time to refute it when the pesky details used to do so will predictably just be reflexively ignored by you. You've already established that as the conclusion to this interaction by brushing off literally every piece of evidence that has been produced in this (over)investigated matter. Now we have to lurch even farther away from the initial bogus claims because they were unsurprisingly debunked. The Senators did it!!!!1111one

Like I said there's nowhere else to go with this. That's the dilemma that everyone faces when they choose to interact with a fundamentally delusional, misinformed individual. We just have to sit here and wave when you inevitably head off on one of your little "choose your own reality" adventures.


Oh look, a coward afraid to face reality.

http://www.campaignfreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Senate-Ethics-Complaint-Final-No-Pages-Signature.pdf

<apparently, I can't post the text of the 8 letters between Carl Levin and the IRS> grrr..

Carl Levin apparently has a hard on for the IRS, but it will have to be read in the link.

Dick Durbin wrote the IRS to pressure them into investigating conservative groups. He also "made no effort to hide the fact that his letter from 2010, which he sent in his official capacity using official resources, and invoking the power of his position as a United States Senator, was motivated purely by his party’s campaign and electoral
considerations and animus towards his political opponents."

The article keeps going, covering group-signed letters by a half-dozen or so Senators also trying to use the IRS as a political weapon.

I'll remind you that of the already-approved 501(c)(4) groups singled out for audit, 100% were conservative in nature. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/02/11/camp-irs-targeted-conservative-groups-for-audits/



Take your nothingburger and shove it up your ass, hack.
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Aug 19 2015 05:30pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 19 2015 06:27pm)
Oh look, a coward afraid to face reality.

http://www.campaignfreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Senate-Ethics-Complaint-Final-No-Pages-Signature.pdf

<apparently, I can't post the text of the 8 letters between Carl Levin and the IRS> grrr..

Carl Levin apparently has a hard on for the IRS, but it will have to be read in the link.

Dick Durbin wrote the IRS to pressure them into investigating conservative groups. He also "made no effort to hide the fact that his letter from 2010, which he sent in his official capacity using official resources, and invoking the power of his position as a United States Senator, was motivated purely by his party’s campaign and electoral
considerations and animus towards his political opponents."

The article keeps going, covering group-signed letters by a half-dozen or so Senators also trying to use the IRS as a political weapon.

I'll remind you that of the already-approved 501(c)(4) groups singled out for audit, 100% were conservative in nature. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/02/11/camp-irs-targeted-conservative-groups-for-audits/



Take your nothingburger and shove it up your ass, hack.


So some guys wanted some people to do some things that they may or may not have done.

You also have to count in that there are as many conservative groups as there are Republican presidential candidates.

But you don't think the IRS watches left wing groups like the Black Panthers? Lol.
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Aug 19 2015 05:31pm
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 19 2015 06:30pm)
So some guys wanted some people to do some things that they may or may not have done.

You also have to count in that there are as many conservative groups as there are Republican presidential candidates.

But you don't think the IRS watches left wing groups like the Black Panthers? Lol.


What part of the IRS being used as a political weapon sits well with you?
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Aug 19 2015 05:35pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 19 2015 06:31pm)
What part of the IRS being used as a political weapon sits well with you?


I don't think it is being used as a political weapon. I don't think anything actually happened in this scandal. I mean, like, what organizations ceased to exist or what candidates were hurt?

AFAIK, nothing really happened except the IRS investigating a bunch of Rightie anti-tax groups and Lefty civil rights organizations, among others.

I'm not sure what was damaged or why the Internal Revenue Service shouldn't investigate anti-tax groups. It seems like they should be keeping an eye on them.

What makes you think the lawmakers involved weren't acting in the best interest of the state and their constituency, their mandate?

This post was edited by Skinned on Aug 19 2015 05:36pm
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Aug 19 2015 05:38pm
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 19 2015 06:35pm)
I don't think it is being used as a political weapon. I don't think anything actually happened in this scandal. I mean, like, what organizations ceased to exist or what candidates were hurt?

AFAIK, nothing really happened except the IRS investigating a bunch of Rightie anti-tax groups and Lefty civil rights organizations, among others.

I'm not sure what was damaged or why the Internal Revenue Service shouldn't investigate anti-tax groups. It seems like they should be keeping an eye on them.


...

Quote
D. Pressure on the IRS May Have Triggered Audits

The Senators’ pressure on the IRS may have yielded visible results in 2011. On May 12, 2011, The New York Times reported that the IRS had sent letters to five donors to Section 501(c)(4) organizations “informing [the donors] that their contributions may be subject to gift taxes depending on whether the donations exceeded limits under the tax laws.” This was a shocking development within the world of tax attorneys and nonprofit organizations. As the New York Times explained, “[t]he timing of the agency’s moves, as the 2012 election cycle gets under way, is prompting some tax law and campaign finance experts to question whether the I.R.S. could be sending a signal in an effort to curtail big donations.” The motivation behind the IRS’s action was obvious to all – to chill donors to the conservative nonprofit organizations that had become useful political enemies for the Democratic Party. As a former Director of the IRS’s Exempt Organizations Division stated, “The lack of clarity and the
potential for not-insignificant taxation on these gifts will cause many of the biggest donors to think twice.”


...and furthermore:

Quote
III. Violations of Senate Rules and Code of Conduct

The actions detailed above constitute: (i) interference with executive branch agency proceedings; (ii) misuse of official resources for campaign purposes; (iii) the appearance of impropriety; and (iv) improper conduct which may reflect upon the Senate. All of these actions appear to have been undertaken for electoral, rather than official purposes – Senators Durbin and Schumer, in particular, have openly stated as much. Additionally, Senator Levin’s repeated requests for information, after being explicitly informed that the information could not lawfully be disclosed, violate Paragraph 2 of the Code of Ethics for U.S. Government Service. We request that the Committee, in accordance with its mandate, investigate each violation accordingly and impose appropriate sanctions. The actions described above also raise reasonable questions of whether the Senators engaged in improper ex parte communications beyond the communications reported above.

The Committee’s investigation should, we believe, explore as well whether such other communications were made.
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Aug 19 2015 05:46pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 19 2015 06:38pm)
...



...and furthermore:


That seems like an editorial though. The article says something that happened, and then it says some interpretation.

Also, the entire way elections are funded is corrupt. We moved away from fair and free elections with Citizens United. Conservatives by and large are winning the war over election law; in a decade or two brown people may even not be able to vote again.

But the article states a fact, a letter went out to donors informing them of changes in donation law and whatnot, something I agree happened, and then the author declares his opinion that conservative donors won't donate to conservative organizations if a) the process is completely transparent and b) the donation may be taxed if it is done incorrectly or outside of the limits of contribution. Everybody as an opinion. My opinion is that conservative donors will donate their money one way or another, and even if some behavior is altered, it is just going into a different pair of pockets on the same pair of pants. Should the IRS be responsive to the legislature? Probably, because they don't care if you have an R or a D, all they care about is that green. They shouldn't ignore the legislature.

Saying they're being used as a political weapon is a bit dramatic. The conservative political response is just so decentralized that there are many more organizations by nature. If you're mad about that it isn't the IRS's fault. Even if they selected groups at complete random, it is going to be mostly conservative, because those groups are a dime a dozen now days.

This post was edited by Skinned on Aug 19 2015 05:47pm
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Aug 19 2015 06:16pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 19 2015 04:27pm)
Oh look, a coward afraid to face reality.


See:
Quote (Pollster @ Aug 19 2015 03:15pm)
And stop projecting, it's pathetic.


You're clinging to delusions. It's probably not a good idea, unless you're attempting to be unintentionally hilarious, to try to project a refusal to acknowledge evidence onto other people. That's a courageous choice.

I've read your complaint. You don't need to keep posting the same howler over and over again. You're (still) alleging that something happened that did not, in reality, happen. You're getting there because, as usual, you're starting with a conclusion that's ideologically satisfying and then awkwardly working you way backwards. Senators can't direct the IRS to do something. No one used it as a weapon; it's ridiculous that you even need to be reminded of that at this point given all the information that's come out. There's absolutely nothing wrong with raising what is admittedly a very serious issue: groups that are brazenly political trying to gain benefits reserved for apolitical groups. Trying to lurch from that to "targeting of conservative groups!!!111111oneone" would completely remove all credibility, if you actually possessed any in the first place, given what we know about what happened and didn't happen.

Like I said, you just tell me what I need to pretend happened and I'll play along.

This post was edited by Pollster on Aug 19 2015 06:18pm
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Aug 19 2015 06:26pm
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 19 2015 06:46pm)
That seems like an editorial though. The article says something that happened, and then it says some interpretation.

Also, the entire way elections are funded is corrupt. We moved away from fair and free elections with Citizens United. Conservatives by and large are winning the war over election law; in a decade or two brown people may even not be able to vote again.

But the article states a fact, a letter went out to donors informing them of changes in donation law and whatnot, something I agree happened, and then the author declares his opinion that conservative donors won't donate to conservative organizations if a) the process is completely transparent and b) the donation may be taxed if it is done incorrectly or outside of the limits of contribution. Everybody as an opinion. My opinion is that conservative donors will donate their money one way or another, and even if some behavior is altered, it is just going into a different pair of pockets on the same pair of pants. Should the IRS be responsive to the legislature? Probably, because they don't care if you have an R or a D, all they care about is that green. They shouldn't ignore the legislature.

Saying they're being used as a political weapon is a bit dramatic. The conservative political response is just so decentralized that there are many more organizations by nature. If you're mad about that it isn't the IRS's fault. Even if they selected groups at complete random, it is going to be mostly conservative, because those groups are a dime a dozen now days.


Dramatic? Watching prominent, important people like Senators howl and agitate for something that just managed to "happen all by itself" shatters credulity. Conservative groups unreasonably held up for years, many to the point that they gave up trying. Conservative groups exclusively being audited, but hey, nothing to see here - move along - thanks Officer Barbrady.

Quote (Pollster @ Aug 19 2015 07:16pm)
See:


You're clinging to delusions. It's probably not a good idea, unless you're attempting to be unintentionally hilarious, to try to project a refusal to acknowledge evidence onto other people. That's a courageous choice.

I've read your complaint. You don't need to keep posting the same howler over and over again. You're (still) alleging that something happened that did not, in reality, happen. You're getting there because, as usual, you're starting with a conclusion that's ideologically satisfying and then awkwardly working you way backwards. Senators can't direct the IRS to do something. No one used it as a weapon; it's ridiculous that you even need to be reminded of that at this point given all the information that's come out. There's absolutely nothing wrong with raising what is admittedly a very serious issue: groups that are brazenly political trying to gain benefits reserved for apolitical groups. Trying to lurch from that to "targeting of conservative groups!!!111111oneone" would completely remove all credibility, if you actually possessed any in the first place, given what we know about what happened and didn't happen.

Like I said, you just tell me what I need to pretend happened and I'll play along.


They can't direct them, just pressure them, but it happens anyways. It's fucking MAGIC!
Member
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Aug 19 2015 06:34pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 19 2015 05:26pm)
Dramatic? Watching prominent, important people like Senators howl and agitate for something that just managed to "happen all by itself" shatters credulity. Conservative groups unreasonably held up for years, many to the point that they gave up trying. Conservative groups exclusively being audited, but hey, nothing to see here - move along - thanks Officer Barbrady.



They can't direct them, just pressure them, but it happens anyways. It's fucking MAGIC!


You're either ignoring or mischaracterizing the purview here. Still working backwards; you're seriously a caricature at this point.
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