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May 12 2015 02:03pm
safer than before =/= safe

A statistical comparison of police officer vs. other jobs would be more relevant.
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May 12 2015 02:04pm
Quote (Voyaging @ May 12 2015 03:03pm)
safer than before =/= safe

A statistical comparison of police officer vs. other jobs would be more relevant.


Never fear, cops come out ahead on those too.

/e proof: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/

This post was edited by Santara on May 12 2015 02:10pm
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May 12 2015 02:16pm
Lower fatalities is attributed to changes in policy, changes in technology and the lowering of violent crime across the board. But yes let's pretend that because the fatalities are down, that all of a sudden being a police officer is safer.

We can even throw in the actual population densities of said professions when comparing them to others. Given that precincts are more and more cutting back their amount of officers on the street, of course their fatality rates are going down. Doesn't mean those that are still on the street are suddenly safer.

Oh and let's not forget that justifiable homicides by officers has climbed to it's highest since 1994. We should ignore that too, right?

This post was edited by Arsenic_Touch on May 12 2015 02:21pm
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May 12 2015 02:29pm
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 03:16pm)
Lower fatalities is attributed to changes in policy, changes in technology and the lowering of violent crime across the board. But yes let's pretend that because the fatalities are down, that all of a sudden being a police officer is safer.

We can even throw in the actual population densities of said professions when comparing them to others. Given that precincts are more and more cutting back their amount of officers on the street, of course their fatality rates are going down. Doesn't mean those that are still on the street are suddenly safer.

Oh and let's not forget that justifiable homicides by officers has climbed to it's highest since 1994. We should ignore that too, right?


Lol, "justifiable." What shitty terminology. Let's just call it what it really is: any old excuse will do. As my old man is fond of saying, "a piss poor excuse is better than none at all."

Sorry, but cops killed over a 1000 people last year. Meanwhile, cops in England, Germany and Japan (collectively comparable populations) can't even scratch a dozen.
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May 12 2015 02:33pm
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 01:16pm)
Lower fatalities is attributed to changes in policy, changes in technology and the lowering of violent crime across the board. But yes let's pretend that because the fatalities are down, that all of a sudden being a police officer is safer.


So... a lower chance of getting killed doesn't mean you are safer? :unsure:

Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 01:16pm)

We can even throw in the actual population densities of said professions when comparing them to others. Given that precincts are more and more cutting back their amount of officers on the street, of course their fatality rates are going down. Doesn't mean those that are still on the street are suddenly safer.


The comparison is fatality rate per 100k full-time employees. Lowering the number of officers would bring the fatality rate up, not down.

Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 01:16pm)

Oh and let's not forget that justifiable homicides by officers has climbed to it's highest since 1994. We should ignore that too, right?


What does that have to do with officer safety? That's officers killing OTHER people, it lowers the safety of everyone who is NOT an officer.
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May 12 2015 02:53pm
Quote (russian @ May 12 2015 03:33pm)
So... a lower chance of getting killed doesn't mean you are safer? :unsure:


There is no lower chance of being killed. The article states that the fatalities are lower. Don't conflate the two.
The profession isn't suddenly safer because less people are getting killed, especially when you ignore all the other data present.
There are attributing factors that lead to the lowering of fatalities, that the profession is suddenly safer is not one of them and to claim that it is is just ludicrous.

Quote
The comparison is fatality rate per 100k full-time employees. Lowering the number of officers would bring the fatality rate up, not down.


Less cops on the streets = less cops getting killed. Smaller pool = less fatalities. It's quite simple.
Also, the numbers don't focus on high crime areas, they're lumping everything together as if it's catch all, it's not.
It's safer to be a cop down the street from me, but it's not safer to be a cop in baltimore city.

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What does that have to do with officer safety? That's officers killing OTHER people, it lowers the safety of everyone who is NOT an officer.


I think it would be obvious that cops are quicker on the trigger and thus aren't being killed. That doesn't mean they're safer, that just means they're killing someone before they get killed.

Let's also ignore the growing trend of the militarization of the nation's police forces.

Quote (Santara @ May 12 2015 03:29pm)
Lol, "justifiable." What shitty terminology. Let's just call it what it really is: any old excuse will do. As my old man is fond of saying, "a piss poor excuse is better than none at all."

Sorry, but cops killed over a 1000 people last year. Meanwhile, cops in England, Germany and Japan (collectively comparable populations) can't even scratch a dozen.


And? that doesn't really counter anything. I'm just sharing other data that is related and being ignored. Like typical pard fashion when quoting statistics, people ignore the outlying data.

We have trigger happy cops, a growing trend of militarized police forces, violent crime dropping and police numbers going down, better technology in protection and medical services. And people want to pretend that it's suddenly safer just because the fatalities are down? how about looking at police related injuries? or police related shootings in general? I'm sure that will paint a completely different picture when including instances where a cop was shot at but not killed or was shot and survived due to his armor or medical help. Does that mean his job was safer? not even remotely.

This post was edited by Arsenic_Touch on May 12 2015 03:01pm
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May 12 2015 03:06pm
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 01:53pm)
There is no lower chance of being killed. The article states that the fatalities are lower. Don't conflate the two.
The profession isn't suddenly safer because less people are getting killed, especially when you ignore all the other data present.
There are attributing factors that lead to the lowering of fatalities, that the profession is suddenly safer is not one of them and to claim that it is is just ludicrous.


What? A lower fatality rate means that the profession is safer. That's one of the ways to quantify how "safe" a profession is. You seem to be using "safer profession" as a cause, which makes no sense at all.
Also, a lower fatality rate is the same as a lower chance of getting killed. By definition. If every year 2 officers out of 100 die, then your chance of getting killed in any particular year as an officer is 2%.

Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 01:53pm)

Less cops on the streets = less cops getting killed. Smaller pool = less fatalities. It's quite simple.
Also, the numbers don't focus on high crime areas, they're lumping everything together as if it's catch all, it's not.
It's safer to be a cop down the street from me, but it's not safer to be a cop in baltimore city.

You really need to figure out this math thing. We aren't talking about the raw number of fatalities, we are talking about fatality rate per 100k officers. If you lay off half your officers and your fatalities drop by a half accordingly, then your fatality rate is going to stay the same. Despite the fact that half your officers are gone.
And yes, they lump together everyone, we are talking about averages. On average, the profession is safer than the top 10. I'm sure they have their own variances too, like fishing in a lake is probably much safer than fishing on the ocean.


Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 01:53pm)

I think it would be obvious that cops are quicker on the trigger and thus aren't being killed. That doesn't mean they're safer, that just means they're killing someone before they get killed.

The fact that they kill others is irrelevant to the statistic. If by killing others they reduce their own fatality rate, then that's already being reflected in the... guess what? The fatality rate! And yeah, if they are given the green light to shoot anybody who even sneezes in their direction, then of course their profession is going to be safer. Any potentially unsafe situation is instantly resolved through lethal force.
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May 12 2015 04:12pm
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ May 12 2015 03:53pm)
And? that doesn't really counter anything. I'm just sharing other data that is related and being ignored. Like typical pard fashion when quoting statistics, people ignore the outlying data.

We have trigger happy cops, a growing trend of militarized police forces, violent crime dropping and police numbers going down, better technology in protection and medical services. And people want to pretend that it's suddenly safer just because the fatalities are down? how about looking at police related injuries? or police related shootings in general? I'm sure that will paint a completely different picture when including instances where a cop was shot at but not killed or was shot and survived due to his armor or medical help. Does that mean his job was safer? not even remotely.


I'm not sure. The other professions have non-fatal injuries too. Roofers falling off a roof, for example. Still, we're talking rates, not nominal numbers. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/02/once-again-police-work-is-not-getting-more-dangerous/

Quote
So why is policing getting safer? The drop in police fatalities is a trend that mirrors the more general fall in violent crime across the country over the same period. It seems likely that whatever caused one trend also caused the other, and criminologists are still arguing over what caused the crime drop. This is usually the part where advocates for more aggressive, militarized policing argue that what they advocate must be working. But that seems unlikely. Surveys have shown that 65 to 80 percent of SWAT raids are to serve warrants on people suspected of drug crimes. And drug crimes are the one class of crimes that haven’t dropped dramatically since the mid-1990s. Some have argued that better body armor for cops had something to do with it. There does seem to be some evidence for that. On the one hand, assaults on police officers are dropping too. (See Bier’s graph on that here.) So it isn’t just that cops and their gear are doing a better job deflecting attacks, it’s that fewer people are attacking cops in the first place. On the other hand, the drop in assaults isn’t nearly as steep as the drop in fatalities. So it seems safe to say that while attacks on cops are in decline, something seems to be protecting more cops from death and injury when assaults do happen. Body armor seems like a likely candidate.
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May 15 2015 06:32am
If being a cop was truly a dangerous job it'd likely wouldn't be left to white men to do. It'd be a majority black/Hispanic profession. Although there'd be way less fatal shootings
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May 15 2015 06:53am
To a liberal a cop being safe is a worst case scenario, these types are some very sick people.
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