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Mar 10 2015 03:13pm
Recently Im sure everyone was made aware of another instance of White Cop vs. Black unarmed man, Tony Robinson in Madison WI.

A group, which i was previously unaware of, wrote an open letter to the police chief of Madison that was dripping with such ridiculous filth i had to share!

Link to the Open Letter by the group "Young Gifted and Black Coalition":

http://www.wisconsingazette.com/wisconsin/young-gifted-and-black-coalition-open-letter-to-madison-police-chief-michael-koval.html

TL;DR: This group is advocating zero police / black community interaction.

some of the tastier quotes:

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The situation in New York City where police have decided to police less, has led to no changes in the crime rates. Thus we can draw the conclusion that decreasing policing in our communities will not lead to an increase in crimes.


What a shortsighted and foolish statement.

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One of our publicly-stated demands is for the immediate release of 350 Black people from the Dane County Jail, with the ongoing demand to keep this number out of the jail in order to remove 350 beds from the facility. This means that, every month, 350 Black people must be prevented and/or diverted from entering the jail, as there are typically 3,900 Black people that cycle through the jail every year. This would eliminate the need for 350 beds in the jail, and also eliminate the need for renovations due to safety and mental health concerns. If there was no structural racism, the jails and the arrest rates should be proportional to the demographics of the population. In a jail of 800, without structural racism and a demographic of 5% Black population there should be closer to 40 Black people, rather than the 400 Black people currently incarcerated.


The lack of logic used here is scary.

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One of the key reasons that Black people are incarcerated is because of poverty. Jails should not function as poor houses. 45% of people who are incarcerated, are incarcerated because they have not paid bails of $1,000 or less. Therefore, they are not incarcerated for a public safety concern, but rather because they are poor. The proof of this, is that people with money, who have bails of both less and more than $1,000 are not kept in jail—and this is not considered a public safety issue. Therefore we demand the immediate release of people incarcerated due to crimes of poverty.


Completely under-minds the bail vs. flight risk system that has been shown to work quite well, not to mention defers the cost of runaway prisoners from cops to bail-bondsmen, saving the taxpayers money.

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We want to see the plan involve accountability measures. For example, if you do not reach a particular goal, there will be potential for a funding cut or some other consequence.


Yes yes, an increase in crime pushes rates over the quota and funding gets cut... genious plan. Lets make all teachers funding based on test results too, thats a model plan!

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For many years there have been studies done on how to address racial disparities in the Dane County criminal system and Madison policing that are relevant, but we haven't seen the concrete action required to make the changes that our communities need.


As a member of the WI crim just field i can tell you this is 100% fabricated bullshit. Obviously routine checks are done but with a population WELL below national average no study would be justifiable. Might as well fund millions into researching every statistical minority for fairness sake. Also Madison has never experienced any national coverage that would get studies like this going.

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"In a jail of 800, without structural racism and a demographic of 5% Black population there should be closer to 40 Black people, rather than the 400 Black people currently incarcerated."In addition, it has come to our attention that in a jail of 800 and a demographic of 7% Asian, Madison jails should have approximately 56 Asians. We therefore demand that, in addition to arbitrarily releasing 300 Blacks, the city of Madison incarcerate 56 Asians. Thank you.


This is just a quote from someone in the comments section that i almost pissed myself when i read!




Actual arguing points:

1. The logistics of such a process are impossible UNLESS the city would entirely stop routine traffic stops in the area as well. How is it even conceivable that Black communities could be devoid of police presence and still have a safe environment without any recompense for driving 55 mph down a city street?

This one more or less speaks for itself. Battle lines would need to be drawn, resulting in police free "safe zones" inside of gated black communities. Essentially driving criminal elements into those areas en-mass.

2. The definition of a "Black Community" as a geographical area is inherently flawed and fails to draw from past racial supreme court decisions.

The attitude of some members of the Black community to sever ties with their white counterparts is one of the more damning things in the battle for civil rights. In Brown v. Board of Ed. we learned that separate is inherently unequal. Not only does this speak for obvious things like municipalities and housing, but also more generally societies view of groups. If you strive to be separate from other groups you essentially are striving to be treated different. It boggles my mind that this response is actually seen as a legitimate idea to some, what was the point of the civil rights movement if 50 years later black communities strive to segregate themselves. :wallbash:

3. He who speaks loudest is heard most.

When i hear radical thinking like this, i tend to place it on the opposite end of the spectrum from the white trash bigots who post racist unfunny pictures calling blacks monkeys, niggers, etc. On one end you have a completely anti-black force and on the other a completely pro-black force, with polar opposite goals. The ironic thing to me is both sides do an equal amount of harm to the actual movement of racial equality. One side spreads distrust to whites the other distrust to blacks. It is the harmony of both communities that will cause actual progress.

4. Once again the focus is taken off of the factors that inhibit change.

Racial inequality has long been a self fulfilling prophecy. Poverty feeds necessity to seek gainful employment outside of the law, and as a result incarcerated populations continue to be impoverished. Once again a tertiary effect (police violence towards blacks) is viewed by the population as a major cause, if not the main cause.

the letter states thus: (note the bolded)
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Our ultimate goal is to be able to hold our own communities accountable and to expel what we consider an occupying force in our neighborhoods


The problem in these areas is the populations dont understand the depth of their plight. Police officers are a constant force in the areas with the most crime, and are therefore the face of the institutional racism many blacks face. The problem with this dynamic is police are a reactionary force designed to clean up after legislators and community members who refuse to enact programs that could defer the need for the police themselves. They are the swiss army knife of dealing with a menagerie of social ills, now ask yourself "could you cut down a tree with the tiny saw from a swiss army knife?" The answer is yes, it would however be terribly ineffective, just as expecting police to react to many social issues will decrease their effectiveness in all areas.

Disproportionate funding to inner-city schools, lack of early intervention/ early childhood programs, and lack of home emphasis on education have been the identified factors for racial disparity forever. However in a property tax based system this is not correctable, as those areas are not going to raise in value any time soon. So we are left with only one option, float the inner city school systems money in order to free up money that would go to prisons in the future. Its like investing but with capital loss and quality of life gain. Prison guard unions will cry till their faces turn blue, but o well. The mistrust and subsequent lack of emphasis on education that is present in black communities is both a failure of those communities and a logical conclusion based on the disproportionate inputs that those communities see coming into their schools. To suggest that emphasis on education would be unaffected by an increase in funding is not only illogical but impossible to say because the black school systems have never seen such an increase.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 10 2015 03:18pm
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Mar 10 2015 03:25pm
but what do you really feel?
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Mar 10 2015 03:25pm
I almost read this, but then I realized I don't give a fuck.
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Mar 10 2015 03:29pm
Quote (card_sultan @ Mar 10 2015 03:25pm)
but what do you really feel?


28K POST

Quote (PixileDust @ Mar 10 2015 03:25pm)
I almost read this, but then I realized I don't give a fuck.


If you care about looking "cool" by posting some silly anti-social message about how you're too "cool" to "care" i wouldnt want you to read it anyways.
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Mar 10 2015 03:53pm
Four Misconceptions about crime:

1. Crime rates are not rising. Sensational news stories promote the impression that crime is on the rise. Mass shootings, for example, skew public perception of crime and danger. A 2011 Gallup poll found that 68 percent of Americans think crime is on the rise. They are wrong. Crime has been declining since the early 1990s. Violent crime has fallen by almost 50 percent since its peak in 1991. Last month, New York City saw its longest stretch without a single homicide since the early 1990s.

2. Penalties do not deter potential offenders. Deterrence philosophy — the idea that someone will choose not to commit a crime because of a specific penalty — is one justification often touted in support of harsh sentences, including three-strikes laws and the death penalty. However, all such punitive policies have proved unlikely to deter, because potential offenders typically underestimate the risks of getting caught and the possible punishments.

3. Carrying concealed weapons does not prevent crime. Right-to-carry legislation legalizing the concealed possession of firearms has been posited as a way to improve public safety by increasing deterrence. If potential criminals do not know whether potential victims are armed, they are theoretically less likely to act. Researchers have found, however, that there is no evidence that more guns lead to less crime. In fact, research indicates that making it easier to carry firearms increases firearm homicide rates, causing 0.9 percent more firearm homicides for every percentage point increase in gun ownership. Deterrence is a dangerous philosophy upon which to rely.

4. The dramatic drop in crime nationally does not prove increased incarceration works to reduce crime. The crime drop does not demonstrate the success of increased incarceration and harsh sentencing regimes. A new Brennan Center report found that mass incarceration played a limited role in the crime decline. Increased incarceration accounted for about 6 percent of the decline in property crime in the 1990s and had almost no effect since 2000. In fact, more incarceration can increase crime. When defendants are sentenced to prison instead of pro-rehabilitation alternatives or longer instead of shorter terms or to higher-security prisons, prison has detrimental effects. For example, incarceration strains relationships with families and communities and diminishes economic prospects, which in turn increases the likelihood of recidivism.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/3/four-simple-truths-about-crime.html

Work is sited in the points, links to academic journals, for what they're worth.

I don't think it is a terrible idea for black to disassociate with the police until the police forces start to include blacks. Sometimes when the people oppressing you want to talk it is only appropriate to cut off your ear.

American police are going to have to make some serious concessions before they're going to be considered honorable again.

This post was edited by Skinned on Mar 10 2015 03:55pm
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Mar 10 2015 04:36pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 10 2015 04:29pm)
28K POST


TL/DR

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Mar 10 2015 04:43pm
Solving our criminal justice problems requires desegregating the public school system.
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Mar 10 2015 04:49pm
Quote (Skinned @ Mar 10 2015 06:43pm)
Solving our criminal justice problems requires desegregating the public school system.


Or for our federal government to cease spending on ridiculous shit overseas and focus on poverty and further education here
Along with legalizing drugs and cease from imprisoning nonviolent drug offenders for years

This post was edited by Tylr on Mar 10 2015 04:50pm
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Mar 10 2015 04:59pm
Quote (Tylr @ Mar 10 2015 05:49pm)
Or for our federal government to cease spending on ridiculous shit overseas and focus on poverty and further education here


I don't think foreign aide is getting in the way as much as the Puritan Ethic and the idea that being poor is a moral failure. Or that people are only poor because they spend all their money on drugs or w/e.

This post was edited by Skinned on Mar 10 2015 05:00pm
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Mar 10 2015 05:00pm
Quote (Skinned @ Mar 10 2015 05:43pm)
Solving our criminal justice problems requires desegregating the public school system.


I thought it said "disintegrating" and I was about to agree.
Forced desegregation to a larger degree is disgusting.
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