choosing to eat ramen because you can in order to save and invest at an accelerated rate.

Thats a middle classer that can move up.

Google "cost of living" and you'll see why people make the disappearing middle class argument. Also colleges are getting more expensive, preventing people in the lower classes from getting training for jobs later

That's someone choosing to stay in the lower class.

http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/acs/acsbr13-02.pdf

Median household income is ~50k. Taking the median since the extremes in income the US are large.

Note that that is household income, so both couples and singles.

I think your upper limit of middle class is a bit too high.

Over here, our median income is € 28400,- per working person. Most people would consider anything from ~30k up to ~70k middle class. That would be our average Joe. Above that you might still not be upper class but your disposable income is so much more than average Joe that lifestyle, spending patterns differ too much. Our highest tax bracket starts at €57000 (52%), which is where most people will definitely consider you well off.

yeah that's fair enough. I just know many people who were making $35k entry level and got vaulted up to the $120-150k range, and their lifestyle has barely changed. I don't think $150k is enough to start going nuts with your money like a rich person. Still gotta be frugal if you want to sustain it and be able to comfortably retire.

How is having an impressive stock portfolio and no debt lower class?



ANYONE who qualifies for college academically can attend a university on loans alone. Trust me, I started college with 500$ saved up in my bank account and took out nothing but loans for housing and classes. I recieved small grants for the last 3 years and other than that it was on my own dime, zero parental support. No bills support, no books, no clothes, no food, nothing. Both of my parents always have been and always will be terrible with money which explains why neither of them have any. Finances should be the LAST excuse anyone has for not going to college. If you have children or a family to support thats another matter, but no graduating high school senior should ever use no money as an excuse not to go to college.

this. assuming you can't get a single scholarship or financial aid, you can do 2 years of community college for $3000/year. That's $6k in the hole. Then, go to an in-state school. That's $4000-9000 a year for tuition, and another $8000 for room and board. So call it on the high end, $17k a year for 2 years + $6k from community college. That's $40k on the dot.

So now you're $40k in the hole. On a 6 year loan payback, that's $555 without interest, call it $700. That's a pretty steep bill, but you can swing it, you just have to live with roommates and eat ramen and canned veggies for a while LOL, but yea that sucks. So let's make it easier eh:?

Now here's my biggest argument. Work while you go to college. A full of classes schedule is 15 hours a week of classes itself. 10 hours a week studying is pretty high, but sure, say 10 hours a week studying is what you spend. That means you are spending 25 hours a week on classes. Minimally you should have an extra 15-20 hours a week to work. Let's call it 20 hours a week making $8.50 an hour, and assume you still only work 20 hours a week during summers and you don't kick it up to 40 hours a week, so that's $8.50 x 20 hours x 52 weeks. $8840. After taxes, call it $7000 (you'll get money back from writing off your loans in taxes, but we will disregard that). So that means you made $28,000 over those 4 years. That means your student loans are now only $12,000. $12k over 5 years is $200 a month without interest. Call it $250. That's easy to swing. Yes, I know, I left out expenses like food, books, etc., but food is provided in the room & board, and I assumed no tax money and that you'd only work 20 hours a week over summers and winter break. My point is, you can easily lessen your student loan burden by being a hard worker. I always worked 40 hours a week throughout college and it sucked but I did it and came out with.... zero debt. not a dime. suck it up.

Going to college is affordable. People just aren't willing to work to make it happen.

This post was edited by AspenSniper on Jan 15 2015 10:29am

Our salaried jobs generally have pensions attached to them.

Are your hours in college really that low btw?

Over here it's 60 ECTS a year, akin to a 40 hour work week of study load.

And yes, whilst it might be possible to study and work at the same time, for some people that's incredibly difficult (single parents, disabled, etc). And what if the student wants to study at a higher level school than an in-state college?

We have 401k's here, which are pretty crappy versions of pensions. Yes, college is that little. 15 credits a semester, that's 5 classes. 2 days a week 1 1/2 hours per class. so, 3 x 5 = 15.

Well yeah i'm not talking about disabled people or single parents. Plus, don't have a kid if you can't afford it. That aside, I'm talking about 18-24 year olds mainly.

In the USA state colleges are typically very good. University of Michigan is ranked in the top 10 of all schools every year. If you're going to a top school like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, etc., then I think you better damn well be able to afford your life as that education will yield great success

I entirely agree. I find a lot of people in our society crave material things, don't want to work hard, and then complain that they have no money or are underpaid - all while they are wearing expensive clothes, using their new samsung s5, and talking about what they're going to watch when they get home thanks to saving it with DVR .I find that more than 80% of my peers think they are grossly underpaid or complain about money, but love to buy excessive, unnecessary things.

The generation before ours (being that I'm in your range) was entitled, and they raised our generation to be even more entitled. I'm sincerely concerned about what our country is going to look like in 50 years when people our age are close to retiring, but we'll probably be living quite well. Being a competent hard worker in our age group is going to put us much further ahead today than it would have 80 years ago. I think very similarly to you with regards to food, going out, etc. - I don't even consider it frugal, just thinking about the future vs. right now. #yolo