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Dec 11 2014 06:45pm
Quote (RzChaos @ Dec 11 2014 07:38pm)
When looking at what percentage of taxes the federal government takes in from the upper class, you aren't going to look at it in terms of their income, but in terms of the total money taken in by the federal government...

I think you are the one confused about what the 1% is...a quick google search provides multiple sources that say you only need to be making $300-400k to be in the top 1%.  The billionaires are a much smaller percentage than 1.0


you can write a story that's sympathetic to those on top by strictly focusing on taxes while ignoring income

this is a reliable way to deliberately mislead folks on the right by giving them misinformation which conforms to their views

Quote (Bazi @ Dec 11 2014 07:45pm)
He didn't make an interpretation? He just said (err quoted or w/e) top bracket contributes significantly more than bottom bracket, to which you agree

Ofc we can make social deductions as to why this is the case, but none have been made so far in this bound to get nowhere thread


he actually thought that the claim that those on top pay less than 1% in taxes (probably an exaggerated figure but let's run with it) is some how countered by the reality that those on top also happen to pay most of the tax revenue a country pulls in - along with the implication that we shouldn't raise taxes on those on top because they contribute to most of the tax pool

the reason the top income earners will always pay the vast majority of taxes despite drastic changes to tax rates is because of the underlying income inequality which has spiraled out control in the states

this was not true in the past specifically because we didn't have the income inequality we see today

This post was edited by duffman316 on Dec 11 2014 06:54pm
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Dec 11 2014 06:56pm
The largest economy in the world and not even all of our citizens have health care coverage :(
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Dec 11 2014 06:59pm
Doesn't really change the point you're trying to make, but didn't China just surpass us a few days ago? Assuming "Our" meant US of course.

This post was edited by RzChaos on Dec 11 2014 06:59pm
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Dec 11 2014 07:03pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 11 2014 07:36pm)
there's nothing inaccurate about the numbers you quoted (i think, haven't verified)

it's the interpretation of those numbers that is just plain ignorant

and pls you can't even tell when i'm copy/pasting despite how obvious i make it


Dude, if you aren't going to post anything with substance, just don't post. You have no arguments, you just act like you have answers without explaining anything.

It's pretty obvious when you have copy and pasted stuff in the past. You lack intelligent thoughts, as does your copy pasta, but at least the pasta has punctuation.

Quote (Skinned @ Dec 11 2014 07:56pm)
The largest economy in the world and not even all of our citizens have health care coverage :(


QQ.
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Dec 11 2014 07:12pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 11 2014 08:03pm)
Dude, if you aren't going to post anything with substance, just don't post.  You have no arguments, you just act like you have answers without explaining anything.

It's pretty obvious when you have copy and pasted stuff in the past.  You lack intelligent thoughts, as does your copy pasta, but at least the pasta has punctuation.



QQ.


if you were half as intelligent as you thought you were this wouldn't be so easy http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71691478&f=119&o=40

then again i wouldn't expect much from people who consider wlc to be a great philosopher ~ cept hst who was open to new ideas

This post was edited by duffman316 on Dec 11 2014 07:13pm
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Dec 11 2014 07:18pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 11 2014 07:45pm)
you can write a story that's sympathetic to those on top by strictly focusing on taxes while ignoring income

this is a reliable way to deliberately mislead folks on the right by giving them misinformation which conforms to their views



he actually thought that the claim that those on top pay less than 1% in taxes (probably an exaggerated figure but let's run with it) is some how countered by the reality that those on top also happen to pay most of the tax revenue a country pulls in - along with the implication that we shouldn't raise taxes on those on top because they contribute to most of the tax pool

the reason the top income earners will always pay the vast majority of taxes despite drastic changes to tax rates is because of the underlying income inequality which has spiraled out control in the states

this was not true in the past specifically because we didn't have the income inequality we see today


This is not necessarily my view with income equality, more just observation

In this country there is a direct correlation with moving up the income ladder and the level of education a person has. I'm not saying a person who has no formal education will fail or a person with a formal education will move up, but on average this is the trend. This is a trend that every demographic (poor/rich, black/white) knows to some degree.

This formula success is available to every citizen of the country, it is just up to the individual what they want to achieve in their life. However, I truly understand some demographics, overall, have it harder than others.

Therefore since there are obvious problems with judging a countries status solely off the bottom/top tiers, we should focus on the middle tier. Obviously you can't look up mean since that places more weight on bottom/top tiers so let's look at median. Median income is approx 43k, about 17k less than the mean income of 60k. First time I'm looking this up, honestly quite a shock. This amount is not fiscally feasible in the contemporary era to raise a family unless you are guru budgeter. I agree there is a disparity in incomes and the middle class needs perhaps more support. Question is what to do?



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Dec 11 2014 07:23pm
All comes down to corrupt militaristic country in the end. I guess there is nothing that can be done except middle class to follow the formula for success and constantly try to move up.
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Dec 11 2014 07:43pm
43K might not be enough to raise a family, but a few things to consider
  • Large percentage of families now have two parents working -- 86k is plenty to raise a family
  • About 37% of the people in the labor force aren't really in the age range where raising a family is an issue. (Assumption being age range for raising a family is 25 - 54, ages chosen so that I can use statistics from site listed below, but seems like a reasonable assumption)

From this data it looks like median income for people in the age range where raising a family would be more of a concern is a fair bit higher than 43k



.

Source for second bullet point:

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_301.htm

This post was edited by RzChaos on Dec 11 2014 07:45pm
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Dec 11 2014 07:46pm
Quote (Bazi @ Dec 11 2014 08:18pm)
This is not necessarily my view with income equality, more just observation

In this country there is a direct correlation with moving up the income ladder and the level of education a person has. I'm not saying a person who has no formal education will fail or a person with a formal education will move up, but on average this is the trend. This is a trend that every demographic (poor/rich, black/white) knows to some degree.

This formula success is available to every citizen of the country, it is just up to the individual what they want to achieve in their life. However, I truly understand some demographics, overall, have it harder than others.

Therefore since there are obvious problems with judging a countries status solely off the bottom/top tiers, we should focus on the middle tier. Obviously you can't look up mean since that places more weight on bottom/top tiers so let's look at median. Median income is approx 43k, about 17k less than the mean income of 60k. First time I'm looking this up, honestly quite a shock. This amount is not fiscally feasible in the contemporary era to raise a family unless you are guru budgeter. I agree there is a disparity in incomes and the middle class needs perhaps more support. Question is what to do?


i believe the answer lies in education and tax incentives
there are a lot of people trapped in dead end jobs with an obsolete set of skills and they need to acquire new skills/training/knowledge to get better jobs and contribute more to society

maybe get something going with private businesses involved in the mix so they can fund the training/temporary work (i don't trust public institutions to provide adequate training) in exchange for tax benefits while developing a pool of potential employees with skills that are in demand

even if they don't get hired right away by whatever private business conducts the training, in the end they'd at least now have a marketable set of skills/talents they can use to seek better opportunities

as an example i took an income tax preparation course with a major tax firm this past year, did well on the exam so they offered me a job (which my dad insisted i take -_- ) and i ended up doing taxes for individuals part time

while it didn't mean much to me i realized this was a great opportunity for anyone trying to get their foot in the door to this line of work, would probably need the govt to keep it open by footing the bill for the course (was only $500) but you get the idea i'm going for here
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Dec 11 2014 07:50pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 11 2014 08:46pm)
i believe the answer lies in education and tax incentives
there are a lot of people trapped in dead end jobs with an obsolete set of skills and they need to acquire new skills/training/knowledge to get better jobs and contribute more to society

maybe get something going with private businesses involved in the mix so they can fund the training/temporary work (i don't trust public institutions to provide adequate training) in exchange for tax benefits while developing a pool of potential employees with skills that are in demand

even if they don't get hired right away by whatever private business conducts the training, in the end they'd at least now have a marketable set of skills/talents they can use to seek better opportunities

as an example i took an income tax preparation course with a major tax firm this past year, did well on the exam so they offered me a job (which my dad insisted i take -_- ) and i ended up doing taxes for individuals part time

while it didn't mean much to me i realized this was a great opportunity for anyone trying to get their foot in the door to this line of work, would probably need the govt to keep it open by footing the bill for the course (was only $500) but you get the idea i'm going for here


This sort of already happens with co-op/intership programs, the problem is most companies only take on interns/co-ops that are already enrolled as undergraduate/graduate students.
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