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d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > That Bill Mayer, Sam Harris, Ben Affleck Thing > Islamic Beliefs Are Dangerous
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Nov 17 2014 06:27am
ever looked at polling on views of violence in Western nations?
Quote (Scaly @ Nov 17 2014 08:47am)
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)

did you check out the parts about "attacks on civilians in US" or "attacks on US civilians working in Islamic countries"?
i so want to see what polling about "attacks on Americans" done in Serbia or Russia would say and if people would be willing to associate said data with Orthodoxy.

Quote (Scaly @ Nov 17 2014 08:47am)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.

now to quote what was asked
"al Gaeda goal: getting US to withdraw forces from Islamic countries." "Al Qaeda goal: get US to stop favoring Israel" "Al Qaeda goal: tet US to stop supporting Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan"
damn it Viv, you might just be sympathetic to Al Gaeda :rolleyes:

Quote (Scaly @ Nov 17 2014 08:47am)
Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam

seeing that around 75% of Egyptian Muslims supported religious freedom this might seem like a contradiction, but do make note of the difference between "major apostasy" and "minor apostasy" - the first being essentially becoming an apostate-terrorist (apostasy + high treason), although the major schools' medieval interpretations do agree with death penalty for apostasy. can't tell that much from the data, but why the part about freedom of religion was left out baffles me.
it should be noted that the last reigning seriously taken caliphs actually removed all punishment for all forms of apostasy.
now as for whether it is a problem with Islam i would be interested to know why the data regarding Turkey (89% opposed from a population of 75 million) and Indonesia (77% opposed out of a population of 205 million) was left out.

Quote (Scaly @ Nov 17 2014 08:47am)
ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution

funny, in Finland it's illegal to insult Christianity (or Islam). Russia passed a similar law just a few years back, but remembering the extent of your russophobia that probs doesn't matter.

Quote (Scaly @ Nov 17 2014 08:47am)
As we can see, anti-western, pro-jihad, pro Shariah, anti-liberal sentiment is not (as Sam Harris tried to say) endorsed only by an extreme minority. Worldwide it probably even accounts for a majority.

Harris is unique in the way that his inanity isn't restricted to just one field, but that he seems to be able to be consistently wrong regardless of what he says.

Quote (Scaly @ Nov 17 2014 08:47am)
support to moderate Muslims who try to speak out against the injustices committed in the name of their faith.

well seeing that you actually just posted a whole wall of statistical manipulation i really don't see this happening, especially when the same brave sirs that are the first to blast out propaganda like this (it really is like classical propaganda) are often also the first ones to tell the average Muslim about how the said Muslims aren't in fact real Muslims.
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Nov 17 2014 08:12am
when you go around killing civilians in 3rd world countries and don't even bother to keep a body count because it's "collateral damage", people are going to want terrible things to happen to you

surprised the number from palestine isn't 100%

this has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with american foreign policy

This post was edited by duffman316 on Nov 17 2014 08:13am
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Nov 17 2014 08:57am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ 17 Nov 2014 07:21)
...do you support the ideals and goals of the Islamic State ?



no, but I think religion is responsible for too much hate and murder on both sides of the fence





Quote (Scaly @ 17 Nov 2014 00:47)

This is an important message that, I think, genuinely needs to be discussed without being put down as racism or bigotry as soon as it is brought up. After 9/11 and Iraq and Afghanistan and now with ISIS I think it has to be accepted that radical Islam faith.is not an ignorable minority and that it will not go away any time soon without intervention and support to moderate Muslims who try to speak out against the injustices committed in the name of their faith.is not a

At some point we have to accept that Islam requires real reform in order to be able to fit in with Western values and in the meantime that Muslims who hold such sentiments cannot, for our safety, be a part of our society.


not ignorable yet still very much a minority compared to the entire Muslim community

Why do you think that Islam needs to reform to fit in with Western values, and are you actually condoning a form of political or religious genocide to keep the Western societies safe from Muslims? All because of the actions of the extreme radicals?



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Nov 17 2014 09:01am
Virtually all of these polls are American-centric, and not indicative of "western civilization" as a whole. Opinions on whether the US deserve attacks by the world's Muslims can extend well beyond theological reasons.
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Nov 17 2014 09:36am
Quote (Gastly @ Nov 17 2014 05:27am)
ever looked at polling on views of violence in Western nations?

did you check out the parts about "attacks on civilians in US" or "attacks on US civilians working in Islamic countries"?
i so want to see what polling about "attacks on Americans" done in Serbia or Russia would say and if people would be willing to associate said data with Orthodoxy.


now to quote what was asked
"al Gaeda goal: getting US to withdraw forces from Islamic countries." "Al Qaeda goal: get US to stop favoring Israel" "Al Qaeda goal: tet US to stop supporting Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan"
damn it Viv, you might just be sympathetic to Al Gaeda  :rolleyes:


seeing that around 75% of Egyptian Muslims supported religious freedom this might seem like a contradiction, but do make note of the difference between "major apostasy" and "minor apostasy" - the first being essentially becoming an apostate-terrorist (apostasy + high treason), although the major schools' medieval interpretations do agree with death penalty for apostasy. can't tell that much from the data, but why the part about freedom of religion was left out baffles me.
it should be noted that the last reigning seriously taken caliphs actually removed all punishment for all forms of apostasy.
now as for whether it is a problem with Islam i would be interested to know why the data regarding Turkey (89% opposed from a population of 75 million) and Indonesia (77% opposed out of a population of 205 million) was left out.


funny, in Finland it's illegal to insult Christianity (or Islam). Russia passed a similar law just a few years back, but remembering the extent of your russophobia that probs doesn't matter.


Harris is unique in the way that his inanity isn't restricted to just one field, but that he seems to be able to be consistently wrong regardless of what he says.


well seeing that you actually just posted a whole wall of statistical manipulation i really don't see this happening, especially when the same brave sirs that are the first to blast out propaganda like this (it really is like classical propaganda) are often also the first ones to tell the average Muslim about how the said Muslims aren't in fact real Muslims.


Holy slapt.

Quote (Santara @ Nov 17 2014 08:01am)
Virtually all of these polls are American-centric, and not indicative of "western civilization" as a whole. Opinions on whether the US deserve attacks by the world's Muslims can extend well beyond theological reasons.


Ssh with your reasons and logic. MORE BLUNT EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.
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Nov 17 2014 10:13am
...to be fair Muslims in London get away with crap that would never be tolerated here . They actually patrol the streets at night castigating non-muslims for their drinking , short skirts and open displays of homosexuality . They would never pull this nonsense against an armed populace .
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Nov 17 2014 10:43am
Quote (C0nFuc1u5 @ Nov 17 2014 01:36am)
Yeah, what the fuck. Why was Affleck there anyway?


Cause Hollywood is a big left-wing circle jerk.
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Nov 17 2014 11:22am
Quote (IceMage @ Nov 17 2014 10:43am)
Cause Hollywood is a big left-wing circle jerk.


The left likes nothing more than appeal to popularity.
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