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Nov 15 2014 12:43am
Quote
"I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." - Thomas Jefferson


Background:

The extremely wealthy, the aristocracy, and those that live off of government subsidies are "parasites" in a very literal sense.

In that both are nourished by the working class of society.

Karl Marx called the working class the "Proletariat." The parasites are the "Bourgeois."


Problem:

The problem is that working class has never been promoted; it has always been degraded by the lazy, wealthy or not.


Failed Attempts:

Socialism desires to support everyone equally, including the parasites.

Capitalism gorges the wealthy, merely sustains the middle class, and leaves the lazy to perish.

Both Socialism and Capitalism are inadequate answers to an age-old problem.


Solution:

The solution is simple. Reward people according to their contribution to society.



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Nov 15 2014 12:44am
Thank you for your high school contribution, please come back after you have been employed full time. Preferably at a skilled job.
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Nov 15 2014 12:45am
Quote (PixileDust @ Nov 15 2014 01:43am)
Background:

The extremely wealthy, the aristocracy, and those that live off of government subsidies are "parasites" in a very literal sense.

In that both are nourished by the working class of society.

Karl Marx called the working class the "Proletariat." The parasites are the "Bourgeois."


Problem:

The problem is that working class has never been promoted; it has always been degraded by the lazy, wealthy or not.


Failed Attempts:

Socialism desires to support everyone equally, including the parasites.

Capitalism gorges the wealthy, merely sustains the middle class, and leaves the lazy to perish.

Both Socialism and Capitalism are inadequate answers to an age-old problem.


Solution:

The solution is simple. Reward people according to their contribution to society.


That was Aristotle's solution, pure meritocracy. People would be judged by their merit. Those with the most merit would rule, those with the least would be slaves. It was just that simple to him.
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Nov 15 2014 12:45am
Quote (PixileDust @ 15 Nov 2014 08:43)
reward contribution to society

Capitalism already does that.

Although really, tell me pixiledust, what do you mean under contribution? Hard manual work? Helping others from a social standpoint? How do you even measure this contribution to society that you speak of and how could you then use this measuring as a basis for a new system?

This post was edited by Ulfus on Nov 15 2014 12:48am
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Nov 15 2014 12:48am
Quote (Skinned @ Nov 15 2014 12:45am)
That was Aristotle's solution, pure meritocracy.  People would be judged by their merit.  Those with the most merit would rule, those with the least would be slaves.  It was just that simple to him.


I fail to see how that is a solution. It just pushes the problem to how to judge merit. Have fun with that.
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Nov 15 2014 12:49am
Quote (nobrow @ Nov 15 2014 12:44am)
Thank you for your high school contribution, please come back after you have been employed full time. Preferably at a skilled job.


TL;DR My post is me agreeing with Karl Marx. However, saying that his vision has been inadequately established.

I currently am working a part time job + attending a world class university. Please explain what you mean by "high school contribution."
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Nov 15 2014 12:49am
Quote (nobrow @ Nov 15 2014 01:48am)
I fail to see how that is a solution. It just pushes the problem to how to judge merit. Have fun with that.


Oh, I agree, it is one area Aristotle fell incredibly short in. But his concept of justice and distributive and not retributive has been useful to legal philosophy as a whole though.

And yeah, I agree, impossible to judge merit.

Quote (PixileDust @ Nov 15 2014 01:49am)
TL;DR My post is me agreeing with Karl Marx. However, saying that his vision has been inadequately established.

I currently am working a part time job + attending a world class university. Please explain what you mean by "high school contribution."


Marx was a very smart and complicated guy, and his philosophy changed throughout his life, from having a humanistic tone to having more reductionist tones later on.

And everybody agrees with Marx about something, most people just have no idea how far his thoughts and works have shaped modernity.

Along with Darwin and Freud, Marx is one of the founders of modern thought.

This post was edited by Skinned on Nov 15 2014 12:52am
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Nov 15 2014 12:52am
Quote (PixileDust @ Nov 15 2014 12:49am)
TL;DR My post is me agreeing with Karl Marx. However, saying that his vision has been inadequately established.

I currently am working a part time job + attending a world class university. Please explain what you mean by "high school contribution."


Word class university... I have my doubts based on the content of your posts. Maybe the university system sucks I don't know.

You refer to the lower class as parasites and want to have a discussion which is why I said get some real world experience.
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Nov 15 2014 12:53am
Quote (nobrow @ Nov 15 2014 12:52am)
Word class university... I have my doubts based on the content of your posts. Maybe the university system sucks I don't know.

You refer to the lower class as parasites and want to have a discussion which is why I said get some real world experience.


The lower class are not parasites. The extremely wealthy and the poor who don't work or underwork are parasites.


Quote (Skinned @ Nov 15 2014 12:49am)
And yeah, I agree, impossible to judge merit.


It may be impossible to judge merit in a pure sense, but we could certainly do it better.

Many people make massive contributions in science, for example, and are rewarded with poverty.

This post was edited by PixileDust on Nov 15 2014 12:59am
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Nov 15 2014 12:57am
Quote (PixileDust @ Nov 15 2014 12:53am)
The lower class are not parasites. The extremely wealthy and the poor who don't work or underwork are parasites.


"Socialism desires to support everyone equally including the parasites." If your university is so grand you should understand this isn't a flaw. It's in our best interest to establish a minimum standard of living. Furthermore the amount of free riders is fairly small.
Most people enjoy working, it gives you a sense of meaning and purpose.

This post was edited by nobrow on Nov 15 2014 12:57am
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