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Oct 19 2014 07:09am
To all members of PaRD.

Grace and peace to you from CPK001. Tonight is the second of the ten series of the book of Revelation that we are studying at Church. I have been taking notes and I am going to try and portray what I heard at Church onto here.
Here is a link to the previous topic http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71525449&f=119&o=0
Last week was all about seeing Jesus in all his glory. This week is all about hearing Jesus and listening to his words.

Revelation 2:1-3:22 NIV

To the Church in Ephesus
2 “To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

To the Church in Smyrna
8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

11 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.

To the Church in Pergamum
12 “To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:

These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13 I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.

14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

17 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.

To the Church in Thyatira
18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’

26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Sardis
3 “To the angel[c] of the church in Sardis write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[d] of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Laodicea
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
---------------------------------------------------------------

We begin with this opening question: What are your ears for?
In this part we look at the letters that are addressed to seven different Churches. If you look closely there is a recurring theme that is said seven times over. As it says in Revelation 2:7, 2:11, 2:17, 2:29, 3:6, 3:13 and 3:22, whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Just like John did in 1:17 "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead" so shall we first see Jesus in his majesty and then fall and listen. The seven churches are all about to suffer severe persecution. As a matter of fact when Revelation was written by John, John was on the island of Patmos in prison.
Why was John in prison? It is because he stood in the faith of the Lord Jesus. Also, when these letters are written to the seven churches those churches weren't the only ones who were going to read it as other churches saw it as well. This letter was not for their eyes only.

So the theme of this week is all about hearing and listening to the voice. There are many voices that can lead you astray. A perfect example is Emperor Domitian with which he wanted to be worshipped as a god. Domitian was going to be worshipped or you will die. Now that sounds like he is 'figuratively' using
a mega phone to make you hear. Bow down and worship or die does sound very loud.

So we must investigate what is calling the people of the churches' minds, hearts and hands away from the Lord Jesus. If we look at the structure of each letter there is in fact many differences and many similarities or each letter.

So what is the same with each letter?
To the angel of the church in ____ write:
These are the words of him ___ with blazing eyes. (Holds the seven stars, The first and the last, who has the sharp, double-edged sword)
^ These are a reference to what John saw in Revelation 1:12-16
I know ___
^ Now tell me are those two words assuring? You have the picture of Jesus of what John saw. I know you are suffering in my name. I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich!
The Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia can say they are suffering because they bear your name Jesus. Jesus replies "I know." Keeping in mind that vision of Jesus. Now that does sound reassuring. However it can work both ways.
I know the evil that you are doing, I know the things that you are doing behind closed doors that nobody else knows about. "I know."

I hold this against you___
^ Not only do I know what you are doing but I will also draw it out in the open. I will not turn a blind eye. From this point you can see the bringing down the hammer in judgement as the next move but then you read on and what happens?

Repent___
^ I know what you did, I will draw it out in the open but repent your ways and come back to me! Who do we come back to though?

To the one who is victorious ___
^ I know what you are doing, I hold this against you but repent your ways and come back to the one who is victorious!

That is the common theme in all of the letters. Now what is the difference in what the churches do? Let us investigate now.

The two churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia do not have any negative things said about them yet their going is very tough. (I know.)

To the church of Smyrna:
Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown.

To the church of Philadelphia:
I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.
Hold on to what you have.

The other 5 churches get rebuked as we'll find out.

To the church of Pergamum:
I have a few things against you - mind
You hold to the teaching of Balaam and Nicolaitus
The sin is idolatry and sexual immorality

To the church of Thyatira:
I have this against you -
You tolerate that Jezebel
The sin is idolatry and sexual immorality

To the church of Ephesus:
I hold this against you - heart
You have forsaken the love you had at first.

^ Remember when you first became a Christian?
Remember when your hearts were burning with love for Jesus?
What happened to that fire? The church of Ephesus lost that
burning heart. They are now called to repent
and do the things at first.

To the church of Sardis:
You have a reputation of being alive but you are dead.
I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God

To the church of Laodicea:
They are neither cold or hot. This basically means they are lukewarm.
I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

^
Laodicea had the attitude of doing it all by myself without wanting your help.
Imagine bringing that kind of attitude to the Cross.
A long time ago Laodicea suffered from an Earthquake. Naturally after that you
have to rebuild everything. Yet Laodicea didn't want help as the people there
wanted to rebuild all by themselves.

The Laodiceans had an aqueduct that probably carried water from
hot mineral springs some five miles south, which would have
become tepid before entering the city, hence lukewarm.

So after reading all these things about the seven churches, all the similarities
and the differences what does this mean for us? Where do we fit into this picture?
Ironically Smyrna and Philadelphia were suffering the most and they both
had all positive things said about them. Laodicea had it very easy going.
"You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.'"
Yet they fell away the most out of all the seven churches.

So whose voice will you listen to in the end? Will you listen to the voices that try to draw you away from the Lord Jesus? Or will the vision and the picture we have of Jesus make us first see him in all his majesty and then listen to only his voice?
Many Christians are suffering for their faith in Jesus but one thing remains true, no other voice will draw them away from the Lord Jesus. Is that the case for you? Even to the point of death?
We mustn't forget that Revelation is not about some uncertain future event that is to come but it is primarily about the one certain event that has already happened.
The same promise of victory from Laodicea to Philadelphia also includes you. It is not too late to repent your sins and come back to the one who is victorious.
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Oct 19 2014 07:12am
k, i give up

you win

see you in church on sunday
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Oct 19 2014 07:52am
This is whats wrong with religion, at it's base moment when a Christian is "saved" it's a relationship between him/her and their Christ. After that the dogma and politics of church and religion start to cloud and distort that relationship. Take that with the grain of salt of someone who couldn't accept a deity.
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Oct 19 2014 08:07am
Probably better off in CF tbh.
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Oct 19 2014 08:38am
So, what is it you want to discuss here? Because this is a discussion forum after all.
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Oct 19 2014 08:51am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 19 2014 10:38am)
So, what is it you want to discuss here?  Because this is a discussion forum after all.


...he proposed a couple of questions in his summation .
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Oct 19 2014 11:29pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Oct 19 2014 08:51am)
...he proposed a couple of questions in his summation .


So whose voice will you listen to in the end? Will you listen to the voices that try to draw you away from the Lord Jesus? Or will the vision and the picture we have of Jesus make us first see him in all his majesty and then listen to only his voice?

Yeah, I guess they have a question mark, but this is still just preaching....
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Oct 20 2014 07:57am
They were questions to get you thinking. After reading what you read, it is a reflection of where you stand. A look into your own heart.
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Oct 20 2014 08:01am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 20 2014 01:29am)
So whose voice will you listen to in the end? Will you listen to the voices that try to draw you away from the Lord Jesus? Or will the vision and the picture we have of Jesus make us first see him in all his majesty and then listen to only his voice?

Yeah, I guess they have a question mark, but this is still just preaching....


...here's an idea that might not have occurred to you...don't read the thread if you don't like it !
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Oct 20 2014 08:03am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ 20 Oct 2014 14:01)
...here's an idea that might not have occurred to you...don't read the thread if you don't like it !


It's a spam thread. Belongs in CF with all the other preachy spam threads.
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