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#21
Oct 13 2014 05:19pm
Quote (hATemOnkEy @ Oct 13 2014 07:08pm)
Perhaps. Still, it's apparantly legal to put a healthy chimpanzee in solitary confinement without any scientific merit.

I'm all for scientific research. But some stricter laws for the use of laboratory animals wouldn't be bad, imo.


Not necessarily. You could charge someone with animal cruelty for that. Just depends on whether the jurisdiction wants to or not.
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#22
Oct 13 2014 05:21pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ 14 Oct 2014 01:15)
...different degrees of allowable treatment for animals based on factors including intelligence yes , degrees of personhood no . What if we had different degrees of personhood for actual persons ? ( you can see where I'm going with this )



We actually do.

Children have less rights than you (an adult)
Women have less rights than you (a male)
Mental patients have less rights than you (a sane person. inb4 some widowfan jumps on this).

etc

But I do get your point.

Quote (Santara @ 14 Oct 2014 01:17)
This.

And there's zero chance I'd ever support personhood for non-humans until all humans have it. Then maybe we can have a discussion.


Fair enough.
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#23
Oct 13 2014 05:21pm
Quote (hATemOnkEy @ Oct 13 2014 06:16pm)
Another subject in which we are diametrically opposed, it seems.



Well, if I'm hungry enough, I won't hesitate to kill and eat you either, I think.
You're still a person to me though <3



Inb4'd me like a boss.


Haha, I always re-read my posts and try to pick them apart before anyone else does.

It's not an issue I'm 100% certain on. It's kind of like war, good people die for other peoples survival, and it doesn't feel good, but it feels necessary. Morality is difficult to sort through.

Good topic though.
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#24
Oct 13 2014 05:22pm
Quote (Caedus @ 14 Oct 2014 01:19)
Not necessarily. You could charge someone with animal cruelty for that. Just depends on whether the jurisdiction wants to or not.


This is the problem, imo.
There'd be no question if the animal in solitary confinement was human.
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#25
Oct 13 2014 05:49pm
Quote (hATemOnkEy @ Oct 13 2014 07:22pm)
This is the problem, imo.
There'd be no question if the animal in solitary confinement was human.


I'd pursue legislation in that manner.
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#26
Oct 13 2014 05:56pm
Quote (Scaly @ 13 Oct 2014 16:07)
Caging is not allowed but zoos are ok? I think you have a different definition of 'caging' than most people.



Did you really just try to compare a full fled habitat zoo to a small cage?
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#27
Oct 13 2014 05:56pm
I am strongly pro non-human animal rights and I while it's not directly akin to your OP I think factory farming is more morally reprehensible than the Holocaust, because of the enormity of the scale.

I think non-human animals should have the same rights as humans insofar as crimes committed against them. I think killing most animals should be to commit murder, though I think the punishment should vary to degrees based on the sentience of the being. Killing a human is still worse, but it is only different in degree and not in kind. I obviously don't think non-human animals should be granted full personhood i.e. the rights to marriage or enter into contracts as they don't have the cognitive ability to do any of these things (primarily due to not sharing human language), though they may develop these abilities in a few hundred or thousand years.

Yes I agree with Cassuto and am a devotee of Bentham.
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#28
Oct 13 2014 06:10pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 13 2014 04:17pm)
This.

And there's zero chance I'd ever support personhood for non-humans until all humans have it. Then maybe we can have a discussion.


Okay Skinned. :P

I'll make a serious post on this later. Have some reading to do. But suffice to say in general I am against animal rights.
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#29
Oct 13 2014 06:11pm
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Oct 13 2014 07:10pm)
Okay Skinned.  :P

I'll make a serious post on this later.  Have some reading to do.  But suffice to say in general I am against animal rights.


i'd call you a monster but i feed my cat once a day so he learns to ration his food supply
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#30
Oct 13 2014 06:13pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 13 2014 05:11pm)
i'd call you a monster but i feed my cat once a day so he learns to ration his food supply


Wow that was a coherent post.
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