Quote (Scaly @ Sep 24 2014 06:40am)

Because at this point it doesn't matter. Terrorist group vs fascist state. Doesn't matter how we got here - we're here now and there's fuck all to do about it except try and help the innocent civilians stuck in the middle.

The US airstrikes in Syria have been condemned as illegal by several countries now. America is not the only country who gets to decide when a government is or isn't legitimate.

Quote (Skinned @ Sep 24 2014 07:39am)

The people of Syria have called it illegitimate when they went outside to peacefully protest only to be greeted by tanks, bullets, and gas.

You don't remember how the civil war started do you?  Nobody on these forums seems to.

Quote (Skinned @ 24 Sep 2014 11:52)

False dichotomy tastes great!

This began by ordinary men and women leaving their homes and seeking self-determination.

There is no Syrian state currently, I'm sorry to break it to you, it has utterly failed and the every city in the nation is in ruins.  There is no social contract.  The Civil War has escalated so much that the entire society has broken down.  There is nowhere in Syria where you can live normally.

The only question is what comes next.  Any solution can't include Assad, or else it is just a continuance of the current situation, which he is primarily responsible for.

Quote (Caedus @ Sep 24 2014 07:00am)

This changes very little. Syria will not attack Israel.



A state does not need consent to be legitimate.

Quote (Scaly @ Sep 24 2014 07:03am)

How about no solution from the US. How about just provide as much non-military aid to civilians as possible and let it run it's course. When Al-Nusra or the FSA or whoever sit in the seat of power at the end of the struggle then we can see what will happen. Right now we're just arming terrorist groups, carrying out illegal airstrikes and just generally being dicks.

Quote (Skinned @ 24 Sep 2014 12:03)

Do you think the current state in Syria is legitimate, your ideological apologetic aside?

Pictures:  Activities in a legitimate state

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ugmmid.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/2pyvp5e.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/29w7r4z.jpg

I have tons of these from a journalist who traveled with the FSA.

Easy to make apologetics from your comfortable liberal democracy with your universal health care and elections.



Illegal airstrikes?  Illegal how?  There is no international law, the international system is essentially an anarchy with individual states advancing their own best interests.

You might think they're wrong, and other states may not like it, but these strikes are outside of the realm of law.

Quote (Scaly @ Sep 24 2014 07:28am)

No. But it doesn't matter what I think... the decision has to be ratified in the UN. America constantly makes decisions like this without the consent of the UN and other international bodies. They are not outside the realm of law. The Syrian government has not yet been declared illegitimate by the UN and as America is part of the UN it is required to recognise it as a government until it is. That's what being part of the UN means.

Quote (Skinned @ Sep 24 2014 08:03am)

Do you think the current state in Syria is legitimate, your ideological apologetic aside?

Pictures:  Activities in a legitimate state

I have tons of these from a journalist who traveled with the FSA.

Easy to make apologetics from your comfortable liberal democracy with your universal health care and elections.

Illegal airstrikes?  Illegal how?  There is no international law, the international system is essentially an anarchy with individual states advancing their own best interests.

You might think they're wrong, and other states may not like it, but these strikes are outside of the realm of law.

Quote (Scaly @ Sep 24 2014 07:28am)

No. But it doesn't matter what I think... the decision has to be ratified in the UN. America constantly makes decisions like this without the consent of the UN and other international bodies. They are not outside the realm of law. The Syrian government has not yet been declared illegitimate by the UN and as America is part of the UN it is required to recognise it as a government until it is. That's what being part of the UN means.

Quote (Scaly @ Sep 24 2014 07:28am)

No. But it doesn't matter what I think... the decision has to be ratified in the UN. America constantly makes decisions like this without the consent of the UN and other international bodies. They are not outside the realm of law. The Syrian government has not yet been declared illegitimate by the UN and as America is part of the UN it is required to recognise it as a government until it is. That's what being part of the UN means.