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Sep 9 2014 09:36am
Quote (killg0re @ Sep 9 2014 08:56am)
I believe as liberals believe, that we are all unequal, I disagree that this should necessitate a resolution.

I feel the you get what you put in line of thought is more of what I align with.


Geniuses exist in all races. There are strong and weak in all races. There is no consensus identifying a comprehensive racial differentiation.

Therefore equal opportunity, King's vision, is the logical step.
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Sep 9 2014 09:46am
Quote (PixileDust @ Sep 9 2014 09:36am)
Geniuses exist in all races. There are strong and weak in all races. There is no consensus identifying a comprehensive racial differentiation.

Therefore equal opportunity, King's vision, is the logical step.


So?

More geniuses exist in some races than others, they're just better.

Equality doesn't exist, it is a thought-terminating concept that was never anything more than an assumption to begin with.
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Sep 9 2014 10:21am
Quote (killg0re @ Sep 9 2014 03:46pm)
So?

More geniuses exist in some races than others, they're just better.

Equality doesn't exist, it is a thought-terminating concept that was never anything more than an assumption to begin with.


Wrong.
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Sep 9 2014 10:23am
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Sep 9 2014 10:21am)
Wrong.


Yes, people are born better than others, especially when measuring intelligence.

The beauty of difference, embrace it.


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Sep 9 2014 10:23am
Liberalism doesn't have a specific expression on race, liberalism more or less states that inequality and social stratification should only exist when it is beneficial to society as a whole, and only when any person, regardless of race/gender/etc are in positions to go into stations on either side of the spectrum.

Rawls is the greatest voice of philosophical liberalism. Time to get out philosophy of law notes.

Rawls A Theory of Justice -- A Thought Experiment
Fundamental question: What are the principles of justice on which political and legal systems should be founded? What legal and political principles would be rational?
Assumption: Human beings are mostly equal, with some variation. (mostly anybody here can agree with this).

How do we overcome our own biases when trying to do this philosophy? The Hypothetical Original Position.
We must answer under a Veil of Ignorance, meaning that we don't know what we will be born as...black, gay, women, insane, etc....we only know that we will be human.
Three characteristics of those of us in the original position: we are all equal, rational, and self-interested...

What wouldn't we choose? A slave-holding society would not be picked because nobody wants to be a slave. Laissez-faire system would be crossed off the list because it is an irrational way to distribute goods to a society, and also because of the rejection of slavery in the previous statement. And lastly, utilitarian principles would ultimately be rejected due to individuals not wanting to be sacrificed for the profit of the majority.

What would we choose? Most of us anyway, under the veil of ignorance.... Rawls says we would choose:
1. Each person would have an equal right to the most extensive basic liberty compatible with a similar liberty for others (libertarianism completely fails here).
2. Social and economic inequalities are to be arranged so that they are both 1. Reasonably expected to be to everyone's advantage and 2. Attached to positions and offices open to all. (advancement or failure based on merit not privilege).
3. All social values, whether liberty, opportunity, income, are to distributed equally except insofar as the unequal distribution is to everyone's advantage (a doctor makes more than a janitor, for obvious reasons, and it is to everyone's benefit).

Furthermore, the bad kind of inequality is only caused by acts people commit that are disadvantageous to society.

Rawls states this as a logic conclusion, much like 2+2=4.

This is the philosophical underpinnings of modern liberalism, unless one wants to dig up Kant, in whose work these principles originate.

Any attacks or criticisms of liberalism are just hot air unless this argument is addressed.

This post was edited by Skinned on Sep 9 2014 10:27am
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Sep 9 2014 10:25am
Quote (killg0re @ Sep 9 2014 04:23pm)
Yes, people are born better than others, especially when measuring intelligence.

The beauty of difference, embrace it.


Sure, but I wouldn't say because a race has more geniuses they are better.
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Sep 9 2014 10:28am
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Sep 9 2014 10:25am)
Sure, but I wouldn't say because a race has more geniuses they are better.


Why not?

It doesn't matter if they do, this is a good thing.

What are we scared of exactly - admitting the superiority of something?

I cannot tell if this is out of modesty or cowardice.



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Sep 9 2014 10:28am
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Sep 9 2014 11:25am)
Sure, but I wouldn't say because a race has more geniuses they are better.


Or the fact that genius is sought after and expected in some races more than others, as if the finger can ever not be in the way of measuring.

Or that genius isn't just intellectual.
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Sep 9 2014 10:38am
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 9 2014 10:28am)
Or the fact that genius is sought after and expected in some races more than others, as if the finger can ever not be in the way of measuring.

Or that genius isn't just intellectual.


For practical purposes, having more intellectual geniuses is useful.

However, the point remains that all races have geniuses, so more or less geniuses isn't based on genetic superiority/inferiority; it is based on natural selection.

This post was edited by PixileDust on Sep 9 2014 10:38am
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Sep 9 2014 10:39am
Quote (PixileDust @ Sep 9 2014 10:38am)
For practical purposes, having more intellectual geniuses is useful.

However, the point remains that all races have geniuses, so more or less geniuses isn't based on genetic inferiority; it is based on natural selection.


Some have more than others, therefore have more use when geniuses are needed.

Has it gotten to the point in our society that we cannot celebrate positive differences without someone having sour grapes?
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