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Aug 5 2014 09:03am
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 5 2014 09:53am)
I've never met a rational person who understands laissez-faire economics not reject it, especially economists themselves.  Anybody accepting it is exemplifying the Dunning-Kruger effect or they have an insane philosophy that includes slavery being permissible if entered voluntarily initially, children who have the rights to leave their parents when they can walk, or that parents have the right to throw away their babies, like Rothbard and Mises themselves.

Santara, do you follow the logic to its conclusion like they do?  If not you're being real hypocritical here.  Last I heard you were even against abortion rights
.


Milton Friedman >

/e @ bold: what is the point you're trying to make as it pertains to economics?

This post was edited by Santara on Aug 5 2014 09:04am
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Aug 5 2014 09:18am
Quote (Santara @ Aug 5 2014 10:03am)
Milton Friedman >

/e @ bold: what is the point you're trying to make as it pertains to economics?


You think people should be free economically but no other ways?

I don't think you can pick and choose mate.

This post was edited by Skinned on Aug 5 2014 09:19am
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Aug 5 2014 09:40am
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 5 2014 10:18am)
You think people should be free economically but no other ways?

I don't think you can pick and choose mate.


If that's your thrust, I can just as easily argue that allowing abortion is antithetical to freedom. That one cuts both ways depending on your value of humanity. Enslavement is not a voluntary action, and children are for most parts incapable of rendering informed decisions. Next.
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Aug 5 2014 09:52am
Quote (Santara @ Aug 5 2014 10:40am)
If that's your thrust, I can just as easily argue that allowing abortion is antithetical to freedom. That one cuts both ways depending on your value of humanity. Enslavement is not a voluntary action, and children are for most parts incapable of rendering informed decisions. Next.


The informed decision rationalization for coercion can be said by anybody about any thing and have been used as justification in the past for horrible rights abuses, and is the most used justification of the herd to subjugate the individual. People want to buy 64 oz soda pops in New York? They must not be informed as to how bad they are for you, make them illegal.

And abortion isn't antithetical to the one person involved, the woman. If the state isn't supposed to enforce social relations then why would it be there to enforce patriarchal family constructs?
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Aug 5 2014 10:20am
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 5 2014 10:52am)
The informed decision rationalization for coercion can be said by anybody about any thing and have been used as justification in the past for horrible rights abuses, and is the most used justification of the herd to subjugate the individual.  People want to buy 64 oz soda pops in New York?  They must not be informed as to how bad they are for you, make them illegal.

And abortion isn't antithetical to the one person involved, the woman.  If the state isn't supposed to enforce social relations then why would it be there to enforce patriarchal family constructs?


Beurk, against liberty.
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Aug 5 2014 11:01am
Quote (Santara @ Aug 5 2014 09:40am)
If that's your thrust, I can just as easily argue that allowing abortion is antithetical to freedom. That one cuts both ways depending on your value of humanity. Enslavement is not a voluntary action, and children are for most parts incapable of rendering informed decisions. Next.


Enslavement is voluntary action if you sign a document selling yourself into slavery so somebody else gets paid. Here, I'll sell myself for 500$ so my wife can have food. Feel free to kill me since I signed a document and accepted a fair trade for my life.
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Aug 5 2014 12:02pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 5 2014 09:03am)
Milton Friedman >

/e @ bold: what is the point you're trying to make as it pertains to economics?


Milton isn't laissez faire... He is all for businesses operating with in a system of rules.
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Aug 5 2014 12:11pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 5 2014 11:01am)
Enslavement is voluntary action if you sign a document selling yourself into slavery so somebody else gets paid.  Here, I'll sell myself for 500$ so my wife can have food.  Feel free to kill me since I signed a document and accepted a fair trade for my life.


The best part is santara thinks there is a moral hazard for government employees forming a union but sees none for this issue or any issue that fits his prerogative.
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Aug 5 2014 12:52pm
Quote (nobrow @ Aug 5 2014 12:11pm)
The best part is santara thinks there is a moral hazard for government employees forming a union but sees none for this issue or any issue that fits his prerogative.


It's not really surprising. It's been shown dozens of times he'll skim whatever source he wants for confirmation of his opinion and ignore everything that contradicts it, so this is really just par for the course.
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Aug 5 2014 12:58pm
Individuals may pursue strategies that are rational for the individual and detrimental to the whole.

Regulation can shape the actions of individuals by modifying the cost / reward calculus.

It's not a question of whether government is also corrupt, just of avoiding pitfalls created by unregulated human interaction.
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