You know its still a shit plan though right Tcock?

The whole thing hinges on taking all these concessions from hamas, while asking hamas to disband and let fatah take over gaza. All the conditions are already fulfilled by fatah, so its asking basically nothing there.
If israel is going to continue to try to prevent palestinian reconciliation, and actually hinge their peace offer on precluding reconciliation and refuse to negotiate with the elected government of hamas and the palestinians, then the whole deal is disingenuous

If israel wants to negotiate with hamas and make those same demands of recognizing israel, disarming and removing tunnels and giving up terrorism in exchange for open borders and statehood being phased in over decades under international supervision and getting land swaps and settlements deconstructed (with israel going with its basically already agreed upon plan to offer incentives to settlers to relocate and then strongarming out the diehards), then by all means it would be a good peace deal. But right now the whole thing is just a sham and clearly meant to just drive a wedge between palestinians, and frankly, the entire palestinian reconciliation effort of the past year is the leading factor in why israel is invading gaza right now anyway, as if syria wasn't doing enough. Palestinians want to settle their differences and elect a new govt or make a coalition, and that drove israel hardcore to the right and made netanyahu completely abandon the peace process.

If palestinian statehood is going to have sovereignty and self determination, it can't start with Israel playing puppet with its government. Its not recognizing a palestinian state if you refuse to allow them to elect their own leaders

It's a shit plan for Hamas, a great plan for the denizens of Gaza.

The denizens of Gaza who elected Hamas democratically?

Its interfering with the Hamas-Fatah reconciliation effort, plain and simple, and it has zero intention of actually being a practical plan. Its no secret that both likud and kadima are gaming cynical politics and have only pretensions towards the peace effort
That was the real sticking point for Israel in Hamas's 10 year truce offer via Qatar that Israel rejected, that Israel has to agree not to meddle in internal palestinian affairs and let the reconciliation go on democratically and unimpeded

Israel can't "recognize the independence of palestine" if it refuses to recognize their right to self-rule.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jul 23 2014 08:22pm

Democratically 8 years ago...

Do you honestly believe that Hamas would have had a 10 year cease fire? If so, I have a bridge to sell you...

The only reasonable course of action is for Gaza to demilitarize, plain and simple. The only question is how much money will they get and how many people will die over it. Let's not delay the inevitable.

when will be the next elections ?

This post was edited by 2sexy4u on Jul 23 2014 08:34pm

And it can demilitarize under a newly democratically elected government of both gaza and the west bank, after the hamas fatah reconciliation. Thats the way forward
And if the palestinian people elect Hamas again and keep fatah as a minority party with a fair stake in the governance, then what will be your excuse when israel refuses to negotiate with the government of palestine?

Never



So your proposal is to just wait it out until Fatah and Hamas work things out? THEN have Israel negotiate?

i dont understand that one time for eternity democracy vote, that should be the priority to put Palestinians back on democracy road no? do you have any link where i can learn more about this ?

ty, so

"In April 2014 agreement was reached between Fatah and Hamas to form a unity government, which took place on 2 June 2014, and for general elections to take place within 6 months of the agreement."

The elections is supposed to be in december, that war seems very badly timed, i wonder this war is actually intended to avoid that election (Hamas or Israel or both)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_Gaza_Agreement

Also i am unsure if those "general elections" cover both West Bank and Gaza, i didn't find that info yet in those documents

Sorry to deviate from topic, but it will eventually help me to answer to that pool when i understand more

This post was edited by 2sexy4u on Jul 23 2014 09:11pm