What nations? Just being in NATO makes them off-limits to a Russian attack. If we kick them out it will send a bad message to Eastern Europe and we will lose a large piece in the encirclement of Russia.

yes, it'd be ideologically inconvenient for you that they are not.

yes, it'd be ideologically inconvenient for you to think that they were.

no, they were not. they were as much of as a minority as the Bulgars were in the Macedonian parts of Greece, or the Turks were in Thessalonicus (a minority) which was 49% Jewish by the 1900's
THESSALONIKI IS ISRAELI!!!

the natives don't count because of ideological inconvenience. nor do the Circassians.

1910 Ottoman census says that there were 135,681 Muslims in Istanbul and 70,906 Greeks there. why are you lying to me? or what other sources of information do you have?


Trabzond vilayet? 1,047,889 Muslims, 351,104 Greeks (1910)
was Alexandria (al-Iskandariyya) a Greek city? for how long? is Chalchis a one? at which point do we draw the line? should half of Russia belong to Finland, Estonia and Hungary?
is Jerusalem a Greek city because of the Hellenistic period?
Cyrenaica?
Massalia? (Marseille)
the Greeks in Crimea?
Sicilia?
Megale Hellas or... Southern Italy?
etc.
GALATIA TO THE CELTS!11!!

when were the Turks an enemy of the West though? when they looked favourably upon the Protestants and opposed the Catholics?

do talk about politics, but do me a favour...
don't talk about history.

want to start counting the amounts of Turks in Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, Thessaly etc. etc. at the beginning of the century (or as long as we can find censuses) with me?

This post was edited by Gastly on Mar 11 2014 10:24pm

You "ideologically inconvenient" in your last post, and you said it again. It means absolutely nothing. You said it three times in your post because you don't know what you're talking about. You have nothing to say so you throw something out you don't know.

You don't have a clue what my ideology is and its not relevant to this discussion. Which isn't surprising, you have god awful arguments. Do the Bulgars, Jews or Turks have historical and cultural ties to those regions like Greeks do?

Why are the census' accurate information? The Turks had other motives for underreporting minorities and over reporting Turkish populations. Census' from this time period all have this problem. Greek was the lingua franca in Constantinople until the population transfer.

Do me a favour, don't talk about either politics or history. You listed off regions that haven't been Greek for thousands of years, I listed regions that were Greek less than a century ago. And you're either a fool or a Turk (Though those both go well together) if you think the Ottoman Empire wasn't an enemy of the west. Europeans hated the Ottoman Empire, because they repressed Christians, used Barbary Pirates to enslave Europeans, among other grievances. The only European power to get along with the Ottomans was France who used them against France's traditional rival the Austrians.



All the new NATO countries since the Iron Curtain fell. I don't think kicking out Turkey sends a bad message to Eastern Europe at all.

This post was edited by Caedus on Mar 12 2014 08:50am

of course not. they just happened to live there for a very long time without developing any sort of historical and cultural ties there.
the state of Macedonia? doesn't count. the Greeks were in fact a minority in Saloniki? obvious propaganda!

well let's see... we can either trust the sources that we have, or pull shit out of our arses. obviously you prefer the latter method, but alas - the method isn't anywhere near as reliable as other ways of acquiring information.
you don't seem to understand that it was in the Ottoman interests to gather information on the population. you see, the cizya that non-Muslim subjects had to pay really was quite the incentive for accurate data - not to mention the importance of accurate data for implementing the Tanzimat reforms and the new laws regarding conscription.
how about their laws regarding the whole thing? Sicil-i nüfus nizamnamesi of the later 19:th century. Ottoman subjects required certificates from the government for handling property and many other fields of life, and penalties were ordered for those not registered or not giving their information to the census officials. the fact is that many non-Muslim communities tried to downplay their numbers in order to avoid taxes before the more modern censuses of 1897 onwards took place - and the need of accurate data was the reason for all of these reforms.

i made an error with the figures in my last post though (quite a stupid one at that). in 1897 Istanbul had ~567000 Muslims and ~199000 Greeks. the ratios don't really change in 1906 and 1914 censuses. Turks and Kurds both fall under the "Muslims"

used between the Armenian and the Greeks? probably
lingua franca? fuck off

hear hear, it's a thousand years from the aftermath of WW2 in Crimea to today. i admit to just fucking around with Marseille, Cyrenaica etc. tho

well, except that all data shows that they were a minority.'


Sweden isn't real, the great Northern war never happened and the "Berlin-Baghdad rail" was a hoax. the Pope petitioning the Ottomans to join them against in the war against the Holy Roman Emperor (the first Italian war)? didn't happen. William of Orange? not a real person. Suleiman's and Murad III's letters to the Lutherans? non-existent. British backing after the rescript of the Rose Chamber? nu-uh. do i have to go on?

it's not that the genocides didn't happen, but your view on history is almost as fucked up as your imaginary population figures are.


damage control mode, activate!

This post was edited by Gastly on Mar 12 2014 02:08pm

I'm not even going to dignify that garbage, ill-informed post with a reply. You post nonsense akin to this in everything you "contribute" in. Should have known you were Turkish right from the start, would have saved me some time.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/turkeys-gul-odds-erdogan-over-twitter-ban-105532817--sector.html

Turkey officially bans Twitter ahead of elections. Facebook and Youtube soon to follow. Said he doesn't care if the West doesn't like it.

Turkey officially bans Youtube. Erdoğan is worse than Putin, yet we're focusing on a country which supported its ethnicities right to self-determination.

Like Chenya?

Erdogan is a demagogue, so long as he stays out of the Wests way he'll be tolerated.

@

/hint 'Caedus' has written his own history of the world which does not contain any per reviewed quotations - can't argue against faith

Oh look it's Brmv. Does he have anything contributing to say? Nope of course not.



Chechnya had a large ethnic Russian/Ukrainian population before the war and a significant Chechen population who didn't want to leave Russia.