http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/07/turkey-erdogan-facebook-youtube-ban-elections


Turkey, a NATO ally since the start of the Cold War continues to show their true colours. The country was created under the vestiges of secularism in the aftermath of three genocides committed by their population (Greek, Assyrian, and the most infamous Armenians genocides). They unjustly were able to keep stolen Greek territory (Thrace, Greek Anatolia, Pontus) because they opposed the USSR. Their regime has continually denied the genocides they committed.

But these are historical issues. Erdoğan, increasingly viewed as the dictator of Turkey has began to move closer to Islamism, has cooled relations with Israel (Accused Israel of overthrowing Morsi in Egypt), has rather weak relations with many NATO countries (Greece and Turkey nearly went to war in the 1990s and Turkey engaged in widespread sabotage against a country that was supposed to be their ally) and seems to seek closer relations with non-Western countries.

Erdoğan now wants to ban two websites (among others) because they may oppose his regime. I appreciate right wing authoritarian rule when it's constructive; it's why I admire China. Turkey is not constructive. They are an embarrassment to NATO, can't get along with their neighbours who they are in an alliance system with, and simply do not play by the rules. They want to be regarded as a European country part of the core group of NATO countries. They don't deserve this. Turkey has never been a friend to the Western world, ideological differences in the Cold War were only an interlude.

Erdogan: "Democracy is like a streetcar, when you reach your destination, you get off."

The military should have sacked him like they wanted.

But if he represents the popular opinion of the country then you're right unfortunately.

How popular is he right now? I know he was popular, but he's been in office for awhile.

Where is our resident Turk Mutantlord? Not that he would have a conversation with us infidels

vestiges? the Turkish state has been opposed to any sort of religiousity during the past few decades - and their military has often intervened when they deemed the country to have become too un-secular.
perhaps we should start counting the bodies of the trail of tears? or perhaps that just wouldn't suit your ideology?

does that mean that you support the return of the Mexican territories unjustly stolen from them? or the billion other examples
how many Greeks are there in Thracia, "Greek" Anatolia (not a truth since when the Turks properly invaded back ~xxxyears ago) or Pontus (a minority since ages ago)

religious freedom just isn't okay when it's other religions than Christianity!

oy vey!

the Greeks, because they're whiter and less-islamic (less evil) are not to blame, though


which one? the one with Austria and Germany or the one with England and France? the one with Holy Roman empire or the one with the Ottomans and the French? the one with the English and the French or the one with Russians? the one with the Swedes or the one with Russians? etc. etc. etc-



BRING BACK ANATOLiA TO THE GALATIANS! CELTIC ANATOLIA!

This post was edited by Gastly on Mar 11 2014 08:46pm

Muslim majority has something to do with that. Like most Muslim countries in the world, the youth is not growingly secular they are growingly religious, which helps Erdoğan as he recedes secularism. Erdoğan's popularity is tough to gauge for this reason, enough people oppose him but enough support him. Regardless, it's clear that Turkey has lost their position in NATO.

I really don't hate a country as much as I hate Turkey. For historical reasons primarily but modern reasons serve to reinforce my beliefs.

Yet Erdoğan has been receding from secularism slowly. The military has made no moves and likely will not. The Cherokee are not relevant to this discussion.

Mexican territories weren't unjustly stolen from them. They were sparsely populated borderlands inhabited by as many American settlers as Mexicans. Mexico had no historical history to these lands nor does it go back thousands of years. Greeks were a majority in all those regions prior to the population transfers and genocides. Constantinople was a Greek majority city until very recently, not even 100 years ago. Pontus was and had been a Greek region for more than 3000 years until the Greek genocide. Ages ago is such an asinine term, it was less than a century ago.

Secularism is to be pushed everywhere; regardless of religion.

Israel and Turkey are in the same alliance bloc. Morsi's government was an enemy of this bloc. Turkey supported the ousted Islamist dictator and erroneously pronounced Israel as the reason for the coup. Turkey has no place in NATO when they take such a position.

This post was edited by Caedus on Mar 11 2014 08:55pm

The problem is that we need Turkey against Russia.

If there's a fallout with Turkey we really need to go about creating a strong, unified Kurdistan in the Middle East. The Kurds are people we can deal with, and they get along well with the Western powers.

Everything except Turkey is going the Kurdish way.

Syria should have been brought into the fold like Egypt was. Hafez Al-Assad was quite similar to Mubarak, and they would have been an excellent foil to Turkey. The problem with Kurdistan is you absolutely require the parts of Kurdistan in Turkey to make them a powerful state and the only way to do that is to go to war with Turkey as there is no chance Turkey is letting them go.

A fallout with Turkey is inevitable, the only question is when is that going to happen. My preferred solution is bringing Russia into the fold but that is going to take decades if not a century. If Erdoğan his path, perhaps you could kick them out of NATO, impose punishing sanctions then support a Kurdish war of independence funded by NATO, which may also allow an intervention. Turkey is a ticking time bomb, something needs to be done.

At current rates China will surpass the United States as the largest economy by 2030. Chinese immigrants continue to flood into Russia through their shared border to take jobs in industry and mining. The Russians will eventually be forced into the American camp as their power vis-a-vis China declines and the United States becomes just the most powerful nation in a multipolar world.

The problem with Turkey is that they have to collapse on their own. They won't be antagonized by NATO because the United States needs them in NATO, they're a strong Cold War ally in a time where Cold War politics are clearly not done.

Russians are too proud to join in that way. They need a reason that seems to strengthen them not be evident of their decline.

I'm not sure Turkey is needed anymore. Other nations have taken the place of Turkey and Turkey is doing more harm than good in the middle east.