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Tboner
#1 Nov 4 2012 11:14pm
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**MH = Mainhand weapon (left)
**OH = offhand
**effective dps = actual amount of damage per second you put out, on average
**proc = chance to set off an effect or percentage of an effect ( eg . new 8% proc on tornados, 8% of your total LOH per tick)





Here is a compiled list of all basic things barbs (WW spec) should know.




Proc rates: Recently the proc on tornados was reduced from .20 to .08

What does this effect?

A : LoH, and other on hit procs (eg. fear on Echoing Fury), and most importantly fury regen through Into the Fray.

Before, each tornado TICK would proc 20% of your total loh (eg. 1800loh = 360 life from each nado tick) Also, 20% of your crits would proc Into the Fray

Now it is no longer 20% but 8%, thus now LoH is less then half as effective and Into the Fray procs much less

LIFESTEAL does not go by proc rates. this is why lifesteal is now more effective then LoH (eg. 40k nado crits heal for 480 life with 6% lifesteal, thats 6000 loh to be the same as 6% lifesteal with 40k nado crits, 3000loh same as 6% lifesteal with 20k nado crits etc etc)


How to combat this: IAS and LIFESTEAL, I will go into IAS in next section here




IAS breakpoints : Yes, RLTW and WW work on ias breakpoints, the same exact breakpoints in fact



0.86957-0.90909 aps - 22 frames per tick - 2.73 ticks per second - 9 ticks
0.90910-0.95238 aps - 21 frames per tick - 2.86 ticks per second - 9 ticks
0.95239-1.00000 aps - 20 frames per tick - 3.00 ticks per second - 9 ticks
1.00001-1.05263 aps - 19 frames per tick - 3.16 ticks per second - 10 ticks
1.05264-1.11111 aps - 18 frames per tick - 3.33 ticks per second - 10 ticks
1.11112-1.17647 aps - 17 frames per tick - 3.53 ticks per second - 11 ticks
1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames per tick - 3.75 ticks per second - 12 ticks
1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 frames per tick - 4.00 ticks per second - 12 ticks
1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 frames per tick - 4.29 ticks per second - 13 ticks
1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 frames per tick - 4.62 ticks per second - 14 ticks
1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 frames per tick - 5.00 ticks per second - 15 ticks
1.66667-1.81818 aps - 11 frames per tick - 5.45 ticks per second - 17 ticks
1.81819-2.00000 aps - 10 frames per tick - 6.00 ticks per second - 18 ticks
2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 frames per tick - 6.67 ticks per second - 20 ticks
2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 frames per tick - 7.50 ticks per second - 23 ticks
2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 frames per tick - 8.57 ticks per second - 26 ticks
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames per tick - 10.0 ticks per second - 30 ticks
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 frames per tick - 12.0 ticks per second - 36 ticks
4.00001-5.00000 aps - 4 frames per tick - 15.0 ticks per second - 45 ticks
5.00001-6.66666 aps - 3 frames per tick - 20.0 ticks per second - 60 ticks
6.66667-10.00000 aps - 2 frames per tick - 30.0 ticks per second - 90 ticks
10.00001-20.00000 aps - 1 frame per tick - 60.0 ticks per second - 180 ticks





Important ones to note for Dual Wielding:

1.81819-2.00000 aps - 10 frames per tick - 6.00 ticks per second - 18 ticks
2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 frames per tick - 6.67 ticks per second - 20 ticks
2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 frames per tick - 7.50 ticks per second - 23 ticks
2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 frames per tick - 8.57 ticks per second - 26 ticks
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames per tick - 10.0 ticks per second - 30 ticks

Important ones to note for Skorn/ 2H users

1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames per tick - 3.75 ticks per second - 11 ticks
1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 frames per tick - 4.00 ticks per second - 12 ticks
1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 frames per tick - 4.29 ticks per second - 13 ticks
1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 frames per tick - 4.62 ticks per second - 14 ticks
1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 frames per tick - 5.00 ticks per second - 15 ticks

*source : http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4902400739




As you can see, dual wielding you will net around TWO TIMES the tornado ticks. This makes fury regen MUCH better dual wielding!

Also, your average APS is not what is used to calculate what breakpoint you will hit, you will either hit the same breakpoint on both weapons, or hit a faster one (usually with your OH, and lower on your MH, still resulting in a damage output increase)

Say I have 2.45 aps on my MH in WOTB, and 2.67 on my OH, I hit the 23 tick bp on MH, 26 tick bp on OH so on average thats 24.5 ticks per nado.

What does this mean: increasing your IAS (As long as you bump up a breakpoint) will have a linear effect on your sheet dps (char screen) but your EFFECTIVE dps will increase more then linearly.









Blood Thirst, is it worth using over armor passive, how good is lifesteal

A: Yes and no, If you have around 6% through one weapon and belt, then armor passive wins, if you can only get 2.5-3% from gear (Belt) then Bloodthirst is a must.

Never use below 5.5-6% lifesteal. Its really never too early to switch to lifesteal over LOH.. lower DPS barbs may want to still keep some loh for frenzy / bash







Why Frenzy, Overpower?

Frenzy now outperforms bash in most situations now that monsters have higher HP but should not be used if you feel you have issues with fury

If you use Frenzy you should be using the maniac rune and it is great practice to keep up 5 stack frenzy as you WW (You will need to refresh frenzy around every 4 seconds)

When you reach enough DR% without Warcry, the best skill to replace it is overpower. I have tried rend and it may possibly be better on a 2H barb but for me im sticking with overpower

I have found that when you are around 6500-7000 armor, and 650 resists without War cry, its time to switch over, possibly earlier for lower MPs.

The clear choice of rune for this is Killing Spree for 10% critical chance, although Crushing Advance is amazing from a defensive stand point even being better then War Cry in my opinion

However it is only better if you can keep it at 100% uptime or damn near close to (If you have high crit chance and IAS the CD resets very fast)






How do I kill goblins / stuff in corners?

You can try WWing normally, usually doesnt work as well as Frenzying.

With a cold damage SOJ goblins cant run far from you and make for easy kills.





SOJ? Cold dmg?

For higher mps, and using an Echoing Fury I personally wouldnt use any other ring.

If you get a cold damage one it does snare each target hit with any of your attacks






Mighty Weapon, how does the bonus work and is it worth using?

Goes by proc rates of your skills (8% on tornadoes, which means an 8% chance you gain 3 fury on ALL tornado ticks)

I personally find it useless now and would rather get the 10% crit from an Axe / Mace

Pre proc nerf it was the way to go








Movement speeds effect on DPS:

Yes, movement speed on barbs effects your DPS (not on your char sheet ofc) but it does increase your effective DPS

The faster you move the more nados you will make. More nados = more damage!

It has been tested and found that 12%-24% is the same chance to spawn 5 nados, however I highly recommend 24%.

Ideally you want 24% movespeed (Usually attained through lacunis + boots or lacunis + Innas pants or some use Tyraels armor in place of one)







Raw damage effect on effective DPS and MH/OH differences:

You have heard it before, OH dps is unimportant on a ww barb. Well, this is only partly true, with respect to nado damage it is 100% accurate.

All an OHs dps will effect is bash/frenzy dps and WW dps

The damage of your nados comes from your MHs RAW DAMAGE (Shown in picture)

RAW DAMAGE from rings/amulets add directly to this amount, making them amazing for increasing nado damage.





The DPS on your weapon is calculated by the average of the raw damage multiplied by the APS (1.30 in this case) ([607+1078/2] = [1685/2] = [842.5] now multiplied by the aps (1.30) [842.5*1.30] = 1095.25 DPS)

For this reason, MH weapons with lower IAS will be better as they will have higher RAW DAMAGE

I also labeled that this weapon has "black damage" or "physical damage" this is ideal as % elemental dmg modifiers will work better with black damage (eg. 5-6% elemental on a SOJ)

Now that we know only MH raw damage is where tornados get their base damage, what we want from an OH is anything that will multiply this base higher

This is why you want high critical hit damage and strength on an OH.







Reflect damage: Why am I dying??

Simply put, either one of all of these things are too low : Armor, resists, or lifesteal (Things like LoH and life regen also help)

The amount of total DR% you will need to overcome reflect is 100% - your life steal % (eg. if you have 6% lifesteal you will need 94% total DR to negate reflect damage) This is not completely accurate I have found but it is damn close *also if you have some loh/life regen you will need a bit less dr%

The formula for total DR% is : 1 - ( [1-class DR] * [1-armor dr] * [1-resist DR] )

so 1 - ( [1-.3 (30% DR on barb/monks)] * [1-.67 (my armor DR%)] * [1-.67 (my res DR%])

so 1 - ( [.7]*[.33]*[.33] ) = 1 - [ .07623 ] = approx 92.4%, so I calculated I needed 94% total DR to overcome it yet I have 92.4% (also have some life regen) so its not completely accurate.. but is a great guideline

**I have heard that reflect is actually 10% so this could be the reason.. personally I think its around 17-17.5%


TLDR version: if you are dying to reflect, get more lifesteal or more res/armor :)






What do I upgrade next???

Its best to narrow it down to 2-3 items you really think need upgrading most.. this isnt hard to do

If you dont have a high RAW dmg MH, focus on that first

Now look for good deals on the AH in those slots.. find a good deal? BUY THAT SHIT!







How can I find out my effective DPS???

I use the azmodan test, simply time how long it takes to kill azmodan on any given MP (start timer from the moment you hit him, then kill as fast as you can, stop timer when he dies)

Now take however much HP azmodan had in the MP you killed him in, divide that by your kill time in SECONDS

bam, you have around your effective DPS. (+/- 5% maybe?)

keep in mind versus monsters that run away unlike fatass azmodan your effective dps will be lower as there is dps downtime

also, vs reflect damage monsters your effective dps is lower as some of your damage is being reflected back at you (derp)






I dont have fury issues but my WOTB wont stay up??



If you read WOTBs tool tip it says : for every 25 fury GAINED you will gain 1 second to WOTBs timer

this means if you sit there bashing something without spending any fury.. ur WOTB timer will go down fast

now try bashing/frenzying something while spamming battle rage / sprint as fast as you can to spend your fury

result : WOTB lasts forever

so, whenever you have a lot of fury and lots of monsters are around you better be spending any excess fury by spamming battle rage / sprint





Echoing Fury

Why is it so good? Is the fear too annoying?

It makes your OH/MH near the same speed if not the same making it easy to shoot for the same IAS breakpoint on both (the +.2x aps applies to both weapons, and is BEFORE other ias % calculations)

If used as your OFFHAND, the fear does not proc a whole lot from WWing as it wont proc off nados unless you use as mainhand.

It will still proc alot from frenzy as its proc chance is 75% (75% x 20% fear chance Echo = 15% chance per frenzy hit) (75% x 10% fear chance Echo = 7.5% chance per hit)

The best way to counter this fear when it does proc is a cold damage stone of jordan.


andrewcvety
#2 Nov 5 2012 08:33am
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WOTB lasts forever

so, whenever you have a lot of fury and lots of monsters are around you better be spending any excess fury by spamming battle rage / sprint

-------------------------------
This is not common knowledge. I think this is why you see so many barbs stacking crit damage instead of attack speed then asking for advice. When attack speed is high enough you can actually keep WOTB up forever with just bash.

CrazyPony
#3 Nov 5 2012 08:38am
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Duel wield > good skorn for WW barb ?
markilbaldacchino
#4 Nov 5 2012 05:49pm
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Quote (CrazyPony @ Nov 5 2012 04:38pm)
Duel wield > good skorn for WW barb ?



definitely

The faster you move the more nados you will make. More nados = more damage!

It has been tested and found that 12%-24% is the same chance to spawn 5 nados, however I highly recommend 24%.

I think this wording is contradictory, im still not sure how it works 100% but from what it seems every time you hit the sprint button once, you have a chance of 4-5 nados from that 20 fury spending regardless of movement speed. And what changes is the speed at which you move, and the laying pattern of the nados is effected by distance, you dont really lay any more nados in less time than before and theyre not more spread out either, you just need to spam that button more often. In short, I dont think it has any effect at all on effective dps either.

This post was edited by markilbaldacchino on Nov 5 2012 05:54pm
Tboner
#5 Nov 5 2012 06:33pm
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Quote (markilbaldacchino @ Nov 5 2012 04:49pm)
definitely

The faster you move the more nados you will make. More nados = more damage!

It has been tested and found that 12%-24% is the same chance to spawn 5 nados, however I highly recommend 24%.

I think this wording is contradictory, im still not sure how it works 100% but from what it seems every time you hit the sprint button once, you have a chance of 4-5 nados from that 20 fury spending regardless of movement speed. And what changes is the speed at which you move, and the laying pattern of the nados is effected by distance, you dont really lay any more nados in less time than before and theyre not more spread out either, you just need to spam that button more often. In short, I dont think it has any effect at all on effective dps either.


MM mayb but null point since if you have zero MS on a barb you are a big noob :)

so at least 12% if not 24% :)
zayl121
#6 Nov 5 2012 07:02pm
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Quote (Tboner @ Nov 6 2012 12:33am)
MM mayb but null point since if you have zero MS on a barb you are a big noob :)

so at least 12% if not 24% :)


how much ms is max atm? still 36?
CrazyPony
#7 Nov 5 2012 07:49pm
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Quote (zayl121 @ Nov 6 2012 02:02am)
how much ms is max atm? still 36?


25%
markilbaldacchino
#8 Nov 6 2012 05:45am
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Quote (Tboner @ Nov 6 2012 02:33am)
MM mayb but null point since if you have zero MS on a barb you are a big noob :)

so at least 12% if not 24% :)



yeah but just saying theres a lot of misinformation in that chapter still, its also worded in a contradictory way. and yes ofc movement speed is still vital to have at least 12%
roky8
#9 Nov 6 2012 05:53am
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How do I check my APS on my off hand wpn? I mean I can check the APS in the detail screen but that's for Bash with MH right?
markilbaldacchino
#10 Nov 6 2012 06:05am
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Quote (roky8 @ Nov 6 2012 01:53pm)
How do I check my APS on my off hand wpn? I mean I can check the APS in the detail screen but that's for Bash with MH right?



yes

it displays in combat when a skill alternates use, but its best to learn to do it urself anyway cuz of some know bugs / echoing fury and enchantress ias adds

base weapon attack speed x 1+(15% dual wield + % from gear [NOT the weapon, already included on wpn] + wotb)/100 %

so say 1.6 dagger and dual wield bonus + wotb (15+25 = 40 ias) + mempo, ring, amu, gloves, lacuni with 8 ias each for another 40 ias,

all for a total of 80 ias = 1.6 x 1.8 = 2.88 aps

if you have echoing fury ur base dagger speed is actually 1.6 + 0.2x = 1.8x aps, just it doesnt show on the weapon (the one that isnt echoing). If you have 2x echo, I assume both become 1.6x weapons.

also enchantress gives 0.03 speed x the step above, so with enchantress speed skill you would have 1.63 x 1.8 = 2.934 aps

This post was edited by markilbaldacchino on Nov 6 2012 06:07am
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