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d2jsp Forums > General Chat > Political And Religious Discussion > Rebellion In Syria > Quickly Gaining Ground

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simpleforce
#11 Jul 19 2012 04:07pm
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Quote (TCassa89 @ Jul 19 2012 07:25pm)
nb4alqaeda?


This was actually funny. Eventhough it shouldn't be.

The name will be mentioned in no time in the media I'm sure. AlCIAda seems to be the largest army in the world stretching from mexico to china.
bogie160
#12 Jul 19 2012 04:08pm
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Quote (Caedus @ Jul 19 2012 02:58pm)
And another secular country in the heart of Islam will fall to Islamists. Seems like half of the Syrian goverment is Christian, the defence minister was Greek Orthodox.

You say Syria is an American enemy now but just wait untill the new "democratic" goverment takes over.


Yes, it's possible, or it could go the way of Libya, either way Assad is not a friend, and even a weak Islamist state would be preferable to a stanch Iranian and Russian ally.
WidowMaKer_MK
#13 Jul 19 2012 04:16pm
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...the Obama administration issued statements today indicating they believe chemical weapons will be used against the population .
Caedus
#14 Jul 19 2012 04:24pm
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Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 19 2012 06:08pm)
Yes, it's possible, or it could go the way of Libya, either way Assad is not a friend, and even a weak Islamist state would be preferable to a stanch Iranian and Russian ally.


Russia is not an American enemy unless you think any country that rivals the US military wise is an enemy.

Syria was freinds with Iran virtue of the fact niether gets along nicely with the world.

If the US hadn't refused to play nicely with the Syrians (And let's be honest the only reason the US wasn't was because Syria had terretorial issues with an older US ally in Israel and that Syria and Russia are close) they'd likely be pretty close. Syria is stauncy anti-Islamist, besides Lebanon, Syria probably treats Christians the best in the region. They are authoritarian which could have allowed American influence to be stronger. All in all Syria would have probably been a prime American resource. You think they're going to be any more helpful to the US when an Islamist goverment is voted in? The Muslim world isn't like the western world, the young are devout. It's the old, western backed aristocrats that are secular.

Egypt doesn't look as bad as it did when it appeared that a Muslim Brotherhood goverment would take control, but you never know. It's always better to have a secular, authorative ally in the region than a democratic, violtile Islamist goverment.
bogie160
#15 Jul 19 2012 05:01pm
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Quote (Caedus @ Jul 19 2012 05:24pm)
Russia is not an American enemy unless you think any country that rivals the US military wise is an enemy.

Syria was freinds with Iran virtue of the fact niether gets along nicely with the world.

If the US hadn't refused to play nicely with the Syrians (And let's be honest the only reason the US wasn't was because Syria had terretorial issues with an older US ally in Israel and that Syria and Russia are close) they'd likely be pretty close. Syria is stauncy anti-Islamist, besides Lebanon, Syria probably treats Christians the best in the region. They are authoritarian which could have allowed American influence to be stronger. All in all Syria would have probably been a prime American resource. You think they're going to be any more helpful to the US when an Islamist goverment is voted in? The Muslim world isn't like the western world, the young are devout. It's the old, western backed aristocrats that are secular.

Egypt doesn't look as bad as it did when it appeared that a Muslim Brotherhood goverment would take control, but you never know. It's always better to have a secular, authorative ally in the region than a democratic, violtile Islamist goverment.


The problem here is that Syria was and is not an American ally. They've been tied to the USSR / Russian camp for decades, they've been a bastion for support against Israel, there wasn't any chance for a genuine working relationship. If they aren't our allies, and they're friends of our enemies, they have to go.

Please don't compare a broken shell of a nation (Russia) to the world's foremost military and economic power. Russia is our enemy because their regional and international interests, as well as their perception of themselves as a great power, clash with the new American hegemony that has been in place for decades.
TheHouseOfDon
#16 Jul 19 2012 05:23pm
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may i suggest a good read?:

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives
~ Zbigniew Brzezinski
Caedus
#17 Jul 19 2012 07:54pm
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Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 19 2012 07:01pm)
The problem here is that Syria was and is not an American ally. They've been tied to the USSR / Russian camp for decades, they've been a bastion for support against Israel, there wasn't any chance for a genuine working relationship. If they aren't our allies, and they're friends of our enemies, they have to go.

Please don't compare a broken shell of a nation (Russia) to the world's foremost military and economic power. Russia is our enemy because their regional and international interests, as well as their perception of themselves as a great power, clash with the new American hegemony that has been in place for decades.


Do you believe that any friend of Russia cannot be a friend of the USA? Syria's problems with Israel, unlike the rest of the Arab world are terretorial issues. Having a regional power backed by a group who does not back you creates problems.

Did you just say Russia is an enemy because they don't submit to American control? Please tell me you didn't say that. The world isn't a kindergarden player ground where the kid who refused to give you his ice cream bar is your sworn enemy.

World powers are inevtiably going to disagree on things and want their influence to trump others, but that doesn't mean they're enemies. Russia and the US aren't close to every going to war, the US will never boycott the Russians. The US will never argue trade sanctions.

And if Russia is a broken shell of a nation, what is the United States? Russia has it's own problems, but the US has just as many, they're just hidden better.
Skinned
#18 Jul 19 2012 08:12pm
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Quote (Caedus @ Jul 19 2012 08:54pm)
Do you believe that any friend of Russia cannot be a friend of the USA? Syria's problems with Israel, unlike the rest of the Arab world are terretorial issues. Having a regional power backed by a group who does not back you creates problems.

Did you just say Russia is an enemy because they don't submit to American control? Please tell me you didn't say that. The world isn't a kindergarden player ground where the kid who refused to give you his ice cream bar is your sworn enemy.

World powers are inevtiably going to disagree on things and want their influence to trump others, but that doesn't mean they're enemies. Russia and the US aren't close to every going to war, the US will never boycott the Russians. The US will never argue trade sanctions.

And if Russia is a broken shell of a nation, what is the United States? Russia has it's own problems, but the US has just as many, they're just hidden better.


I would say that the quasi-fascist pan-Arab Ba'thi party is about as bad as it gets in that region, besides Saudi Arabia ofc.
Caedus
#19 Jul 19 2012 08:15pm
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Quote (Skinned @ Jul 19 2012 10:12pm)
I would say that the quasi-fascist pan-Arab Ba'thi party is about as bad as it gets in that region, besides Saudi Arabia ofc.


It's not driven by religion.
Skinned
#20 Jul 19 2012 08:30pm
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Quote (Caedus @ Jul 19 2012 09:15pm)
It's not driven by religion.


It's gotta be driven by something. I personally prefer religion over fascist ideology.

Regardless Assad has to go. And choosing between the Ba'thi brand of fascism is a radical Islamic state is a false dichotomy.
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