I'll tell you the same thing I told the geeks over at cprogramming forums - if you aren't able to deal w/ a newb, you probably should not contribute.

Like if you suggest me to do something which makes no sense to me, the nice thing to do would be to explain it, not just say 'google or gtfo' or say nothing.

Shit on google is NOT made for newb eyes.

This post was edited by Eep on Jul 3 2012 06:38pm

You really went into this in a completely skewed direction. Posting on forums is not how you learn how to program. You are completely irrational if you actually think that's a valid way.
You call people who want to help you GEEKS, yet you are trying to become one yourself, do you ever look into the mirror? You'll find the mirror image disturbing.

I hope you either realize your position in this, you're a ****ing learning person, you aren't experienced and should take that into consideration before you LECTURE people with years of experience. Where's the ****ing gratitude?
Or, don't realize it and just get the **** out of the Programming community.


You're starting to be annoying by now. Why should people explain what is already explained somewhere - simply because you're too ****ing arrogant/stubborn/lazy to look up the source he gave you?


Actually, yes it is. People who aren't stupid will tell you the same thing.

---------------------

Now go read a ****ing book on a language (and don't post on a ****ing forum to find the right ****ing book) or maybe you're too ****ing lazy? Because that's the only reason I can rationalize to why you aren't googling shit/reading shit/eating your own food, baby spoonfed.

This post was edited by eagl3s1ght on Jul 3 2012 07:48pm

Wow. Just wow. Look at all the rage in this post. Not only did he misread everything I wrote (and interpreted it in a completely wrong way), he got offended by me saying geeks - NO SHIT they are geeks. NO SHIT I am one too - the fuck you think I am on a d2 gaming website for??



What year is it where you come from? I have learned PLENTY of shit on forums/online etc. If you think EVERYTHING YOU EVER LEARN will come from Jobs or School only, you are sadly mistaken. Likewise, there are PLENTY of other online communities out there who DO help people learn things - they just aren't dicks about it.

I am OBVIOUSLY not trying to learn everything from the ground up about programming -- THAT IS YOUR *OWN* skewed perception. Not mine. I come in here, post my code, ask for improvements and maybe now and then ask for help doing *1* thing usually.




A 'learning person'? The fuck is that? I am a human being and I just HAPPEN to be a STUDENT <-- proper term.

Lecturing people??

Nothing irimi GAVE ME (aside from the edit about the one thing) helped, and other than that he did not explain anything and was generally acting like a dick to me - why should I show any gratitude in those instances?

Also



What community? LOL Look at your post and then irimi's -- TELL ME there is anything community like about them. Unhelpful, arrogant and not welcoming at all. Brilliant way to advertise your 'community'.



Shitty assumptions. I click on every link/resource etc that is EVER shown to me. You know what I see?? 10000 things I don't know, and when I need A VERY SMALL, SPECIFIC THING and all you do is LINK LINK LINK or post stuff without explaining it, you AREN'T HELPING ANYONE!!

Amazing how people are so quick to go into defensive mode and never ONCE think about the shit they say/type, like they are some sort of online deity. Ever tried criticizing yourself? HURTS DOESN'T IT. Get criticized IRL? I am willing to bet you get REAL ANGRY when someone criticizes you irl. I feel bad for whatever company gets you.



Brilliant. "People who AREN'T stupid" -- super classy line here from a professional computer scientist, folks!



This guy is so full of shit, I am considering having him reported to a moderator and just removed from this site altogether - you don't read shit, you make shit up, you rage easy and this entire post has been a huge waste of time responding to your ignorant self.

Get the fuck out, please. Anyone else who thinks like this CHILD can leave with him.



And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am ALWAYS hesitant about posting in programming forums -- PEOPLE LIKE HIM.

Someone wants help? Post shit they don't need, play it off like you were correct and make fun of them for not being as good.

Etc etc. Jesus christ. Grow up.

This post was edited by Eep on Jul 3 2012 08:59pm

jeez

tell me about it.

edit: What I WAS TRYING to tell irimi is this -- IF HE IS NOT CONFIDENT in his ability to explain something or DOES NOT WISH TO explain something or DOES NOT HAVE TIME To explain something -- WITHOUT raging or talking shit about somebody -- he (and others) should PROBABLY REFRAIN from posting in this particular thread.


I understand it is an online FORUM - I am not expecting a full blown class on something - but if you just post random stuff which in your mind is useful, but to me worthless - I am obviously going to call you out on it.


I know it is HARD for computer scientists to do things like socialize normally without being super defensive, but trust me there is more to life than your computer screen and job - you don't HAVE to show off every 3 seconds.

This post was edited by Eep on Jul 3 2012 09:05pm

lol


at some point, if you find yourself having to say this everywhere you ask for help from, you have to start wondering if it's really them, or if it's you.

(it's you.)


Actually you're getting this backwards. If someone says something that you don't understand, you either try to figure it out by looking it up or by asking more/better questions -- you don't tell them that they're wrong or that they're bad teachers (who says anyone wants to teach you anything?). The onus is not on them to figure out what your level of understanding, nor is it on them to spoonfeed you every single piece of information.

Your thread is "Make me a better programmer." I can tell you with utmost certainty that the above paragraph is the single most important thing you can learn in order to become a better programmer. In places where I ask for help, you will only see me saying things like "This didn't work for me... am I doing something wrong?" or "Can you please explain what that means?" You will definitely NOT see me telling someone who's giving me advice (be it good or bad advice) that they're wrong, that they're bad teachers or explainers, or that they should stay away if they don't have anything useful (by my metric of usefulness) to say.


I hate to break it to you, but this has nothing to do with computer scientists at all. Given your attitude, I can guarantee that you'll run into this no matter what it is you're trying to learn. Which of course, just goes back to what I said at the top of this post.


lol

This post was edited by irimi on Jul 3 2012 11:17pm

^This reply is fairly justified, at least in regards to eaglesight's last post.

However, a fair amount of good (great, really) points were made early in this topic, including:
- working out the flow of your code - this is pretty crucial for any project with any kind of non-trivial abstraction level, really
- logging - this may seem like a handful for a complete beginner, but it is mentioned as good habbits are best attained early and progressively improved with your overall experience in the language
- Google is your friend - this may seem like an awful unhelpful answer, but really, Google is your friend, and tons upon tons of information, tips, tricks, help, examples and all things related are available at the blink of an eye

Now, it's fairly important to actually realize what the lines you're typing do; Looking at your previous code, my suggestion to you would be to take a step back, fetch a pen and paper, and work out your code step by step. This advice is often frowned and neglected by newbies, but I think you - as with most completely new and eager persons - are brute forcing your solutions; I base this on your 'continue' solution above. To deal with this, you should work out the idea behind the lines and loops you're making. What do you want it to do? What does it actually do? How does it react to the different possible cases? Are there any corner cases, which you have to deal with? Any leaks in the flow?

Getting the code to compile and run is fairly trivial; it should never be your primary goal to please your compiler.
And again, you're new, and the initial abstraction curve may or may not seem steep. I'm fairly certain the people who replied to you so far have been doing so with good intentions.

This post was edited by Grandebedte on Jul 3 2012 11:20pm

getting eaglesighted is part of how this forum works. welcome to jsp!

There is a difference though

The guys at cprogramming eventually realized what I needed (because they thought it was something else) and eventually weeded it out to a specific thing I could use.

They also explained what everything did. It's just the first initial posts there were much like yours, minus the dbaggery.



Again, you guys keep telling me to look stuff up - I DO. And trust me, it is not an unknown concept. Here is the thing you don't seem to get - I am not trying to become the apex of all computer programming in a week - I am trying to make small steps at a time towards a larger goal.

Want an example of my quest trying to get help?

Here we go. I asked for help with that 2nd code I posted, with reference to how if I entered something like 'yes', it would error out.

The guy linked me to a thread which contained this:



Now, in my class, up to this point, we had just covered cin and if statements, but hadn't reached loops.

There were many things about this I didn't get.

For example,

I thought this sounded interesting, so I looked it up.



I saw this. Now, I had to ask, "What are these"?

referring to:

eofbit, failbit and badbit, this 'stream', (rdstate() == 0) etc.


So suddenly, my request for what should have been a simple fix, has led me to at least 3 different pages, and if I keep going, it never ends.

See how that works? I am not you and not them. I understand what you guys are doing, but what I don't think you get is that I don't like to do leaps and bounds when learning - that is BAD work as a student. I have managed to get a 4.0 up to this point (2 years worth of school, including calc and calc 2, always full time) (not trying to brag, just showing how srs I am about my academics) by specifically NOT trying to do too much shit at once.

SMALL STEPS, MAN.

Like seriously, I thought I was doing better than most of JSP by NOT asking you do to entire projects for free and stuff. I usually just need one or two small things fixed.

All I ask is that if you suggest I use something like toupper, at least show me some context of how it is used :/

This post was edited by Eep on Jul 3 2012 11:39pm

I can call iriimii guy out and laugh at him