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d2jsp Forums > General Chat > Christian Fellowship > Is It Okay To Pray To Mary? > The Rosary

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Dune1
#51 Jun 19 2012 05:49pm
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Quote (Silenced_Matrix @ Jun 19 2012 06:48pm)
You say this but are always quick to point a finger at people.  Theology means something.  A worthless issue is praying to Mary over Jesus Christ (like the Bible calls), yet you also come in here and want to call him out.  There is a major difference between him interceding/praying for others.  You are making assumptions of him and more assumptions of the Catholic Church.  A knowledge of Christ and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ are 2 major different things.


This whole post meant nothing. I am calling out a Christian who is telling other people they are not Christians. Surely you can see the difference in what I am doing. Sounds to me though you are just looking for a reason to pander.

Quote (LiquidZerg @ Jun 19 2012 07:37pm)
Well it seems to me you are not well versed at all. I guess they don't teach about the rapture in a Catholic church.

Mary is dead right now, Jesus is not dead, he rose again. All believers who died are dead right now with the exception of Enoch and Elijah who God actually took before they saw death and gave them a glorified body. All the dead will only come to life in the second coming of Christ when he will come to take his church in the end days before the 7 year period of which Satan will rule this world.

1 Thess 4:13-17
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.





The teachings of the Catholic church are very wrong, if Catholics don't even know what being born again is how can they call themselves Christians? If someone is not born again they will not see the kingdom of God, these are not my words but of Christ Jesus himself. The Catholic church creates their own rules and their own understanding, they do not follow God's plan but rather do what their own hearts desire. Bringing people to know Christ and saving people are 2 different things, the whole world already knows about Christ, but how many are saved? The Catholic church has many wrong teaches, the biggest of all the wrong teachings is that we have the power to save ourselves by doing good works, when the reality is we are only saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Believers must separate themselves from wrong teachings.
Gal 1:7-9
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.



I believe this is a very powerful verse when it comes to speaking out against false doctrine.
Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.


I don't need a lesson from you about wrong teachings. You are openly judging people on their salvation, yet you want to lecture me on proper teaching? I understand fully the incorrect doctrines that the Catholic church holds. But there is a VAST difference in educating someone, and saying they are not a Christian (even though the Catholic church follows Christ). Also, any given denomination has an "incorrect" doctrine. This is the reason why there are 5,000 denominations out there. If you were to tell me your denomination, I could tell you what's wrong about your doctrine (while holding the scriptures you just quoted to me over your head).

Again, for issues that do not matter.. there is no reason to debate. Just because 1 Catholic does not know what born-again is, does not mean the entire Catholic church holds the same view. I can tell you MANY protestants who also do not know what that term means.
Silenced_Matrix
#52 Jun 19 2012 05:58pm
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Quote (Dune1 @ Jun 19 2012 07:49pm)
This whole post meant nothing.  I am calling out a Christian who is telling other people they are not Christians.  Surely you can see the difference in what I am doing.  Sounds to me though you are just looking for a reason to pander.



I don't need a lesson from you about wrong teachings.  You are openly judging people on their salvation, yet you want to lecture me on proper teaching?  I understand fully the incorrect doctrines that the Catholic church holds.  But there is a VAST difference in educating someone, and saying they are not a Christian (even though the Catholic church follows Christ).  Also, any given denomination has an "incorrect" doctrine.  This is the reason why there are 5,000 denominations out there.  If you were to tell me your denomination, I could tell you what's wrong about your doctrine (while holding the scriptures you just quoted to me over your head). 

Again, for issues that do not matter.. there is no reason to debate.  Just because 1 Catholic does not know what born-again is, does not mean the entire Catholic church holds the same view.  I can tell you MANY protestants who also do not know what that term means.


You enjoy pointing your finger so much it's fine, you apparently want some type of authority.
Dune1
#53 Jun 19 2012 06:04pm
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Quote (Silenced_Matrix @ Jun 19 2012 07:58pm)
You enjoy pointing your finger so much it's fine, you apparently want some type of authority.


Authority? A Christian is telling people they are not Christians because they pray to Mary. Praying to Mary is not a salvational issue. There are many other things that Catholics do/don't do that would be considered salvational, but praying to Mary is not one of them. Please show me where it is? Maybe it's where rock and roll music is condemned in the bible? What is wrong with Christians becoming authoritative? You accuse me of one thing yet half of your posts in here a month ago were to tell everyone how un-Christian they were for doing random things. Sounds to me like you are on an authority trip.

The world only knows what Christians are AGAINST, not what we are for. I see a problem in that. I hope you do as well.
LiquidZerg
#54 Jun 19 2012 06:55pm
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Quote (Dune1 @ Jun 20 2012 12:04pm)
Authority?  A Christian is telling people they are not Christians because they pray to Mary.  Praying to Mary is not a salvational issue.  There are many other things that Catholics do/don't do that would be considered salvational, but praying to Mary is not one of them.  Please show me where it is?  Maybe it's where rock and roll music is condemned in the bible?  What is wrong with Christians becoming authoritative?  You accuse me of one thing yet half of your posts in here a month ago were to tell everyone how un-Christian they were for doing random things.  Sounds to me like you are on an authority trip.

The world only knows what Christians are AGAINST, not what we are for.  I see a problem in that.  I hope you do as well.


Praying to Mary is Idolatry.

Idolatry is for Pagans, not Christians.
Silenced_Matrix
#55 Jun 19 2012 06:56pm
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Quote (Dune1 @ Jun 19 2012 08:04pm)
Authority?  A Christian is telling people they are not Christians because they pray to Mary.  Praying to Mary is not a salvational issue.  There are many other things that Catholics do/don't do that would be considered salvational, but praying to Mary is not one of them.  Please show me where it is?  Maybe it's where rock and roll music is condemned in the bible?  What is wrong with Christians becoming authoritative?  You accuse me of one thing yet half of your posts in here a month ago were to tell everyone how un-Christian they were for doing random things.  Sounds to me like you are on an authority trip.

The world only knows what Christians are AGAINST, not what we are for.  I see a problem in that.  I hope you do as well.


I have no problem in admitting I have been wrong. One thing with Christians is they let pride get in and won't do that. Although I stand firm on only listening to worship type music. But like I have said, go by your conviction. Glad you quote such a wonderful song. It's the way you say things, not what you say.
Silenced_Matrix
#56 Jun 19 2012 06:58pm
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Quote (LiquidZerg @ Jun 19 2012 08:55pm)
Praying to Mary is Idolatry.

Idolatry is for Pagans, not Christians.


The one thing you do have to remember bro is we are all sinners, we all do stuff we shouldn't. I don't agree at all with praying to Mary. But I also don't agree with myself when I look at porn cause I struggle with lust sometimes. I am still a Christian, saved by the grace of God.
LiquidZerg
#57 Jun 19 2012 07:11pm
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Quote (Silenced_Matrix @ Jun 20 2012 12:58pm)
The one thing you do have to remember bro is we are all sinners, we all do stuff we shouldn't.  I don't agree at all with praying to Mary.  But I also don't agree with myself when I look at porn cause I struggle with lust sometimes.  I am still a Christian, saved by the grace of God.


Alright brother,

What I'm trying to differentiate to him is that there is a difference between "living in sin and for Satan" and "living for God". You can make mistakes while you live for God, that is why Jesus died for us, because nobody is perfect, but when a person continues living in the wrong direction its no longer a matter of making a mistake, or falling into weakness and temptation but a matter of faith. I have no problems with Catholics, I have nothing against them, my problem is with the teaching of the Catholic church.
Morgasm
#58 Jun 20 2012 06:35am
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Quote (Silenced_Matrix @ Jun 20 2012 01:58am)
The one thing you do have to remember bro is we are all sinners, we all do stuff we shouldn't.  I don't agree at all with praying to Mary.  But I also don't agree with myself when I look at porn cause I struggle with lust sometimes.  I am still a Christian, saved by the grace of God.


Quote (Silenced_Matrix @ Jun 20 2012 01:58am)
The one thing you do have to remember bro is we are all sinners, we all do stuff we shouldn't.  I don't agree at all with praying to Mary.  But I also don't agree with myself when I look at porn cause I struggle with lust sometimes.  I am still a Christian, saved by the grace of God.


What exactly was wrong before god physically saved you? I ask you because i have not yet reached such enlightenment, reflecting on myself i wish to improve what i can.



This post was edited by Morgasm on Jun 20 2012 06:57am
nekrotic
#59 Jun 20 2012 06:54am
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Quote (DCEVO @ 29 May 2012 02:34)
Okay, so before, I was talking about confession and I now believe it to be okay since Jesus breathed on the apostles so they could have the power to forgive sin.

Also to me it doesn't make sense that he would give the apostles the power to forgive sins and it would end with them, it makes sense that the power to forgive sin
would be passed down, right?

Now I would like to ask if it is okay to pray to Mary?

Also, where in the bible does it talk about transubstantiation?

There are so many different beliefs.

Colossians 2 NLT

16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality. 18 Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels,[e] saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud, 19 and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.

Okay so in heaven there is God and there is angels. Isn't Mary an angel? So it would be wrong to pray to her, right? Even if we are asking her to pray for us?


Yes it is good to pray the virgin Mary, Mother of God and of the humanity. To help you to understand better, here is some awnsers to your questions: Is there any Biblical support for the belief of Catholics to call upon Mary to intercede to God on their behalf?

First of all, because Mary was the birth mother of the humanity of Jesus in who "the fullness of the deity (God) was pleased to dwell bodily," [Col. 1:19, 2:9] Catholics recognize the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God.

Secondly, because Mary was "favoured by God" [Lk. 1:30] when she was personally chosen by the Lord to become the mother of Jesus, God incarnated, Catholics believe that they have a greater chance of obtaining God's grace for their daily physical and spiritual needs by asking Mary to intercede on their behalf.

Thirdly, the above mentioned belief is partially based on the fact that Jesus is the King of kings and Mary, as the mother of the King, is the "queen mother." Then, when studying Jewish history, it is discovered that the institution of the "queen mother" was established during the reign of King Solomon.

In the Old Testament, we learn of the favoured position of the queen mother through the following words, "... then the king sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat on his right. Then she said, 'I have one small request to make of you, do not refuse me.' And the king said to her, 'Make your request, my mother, for I will not refuse you.'" [1 Kgs. 2:19-20]

Following the reign of King Solomon, many of the kings kept this practice. The mother of the king, through who the king received his throne, was trusted as a confident and advisor. So important was the function of the queen mothers in the days of the Old Testament that their names were listed in the succession records of the kings of Judah. [See 1 Kgs 14:21, 15:13; 2 Kgs. 12:1, 14:2, 15:2, etc...]

Similar to the intercession of the Queen Mother, when a child desires a favour and cannot obtain it from his/her parents, frequently the child will make the request to the grandparent to intercede on his/her behalf, therefore obtaining the favour that was being sought. This does not mean that the child is seeking the parental favour from the grandparent. Rather, the child is seeking the intercession of the grandparents before the parents.

Furthermore, Catholics do not differentiate between the living (in this world) and the dead (those who departed) members of the Body of Christ (the fullness of the Church.) The fullness of the mystical Body of Christ is found in the union of all the saints, past and present, here below and those above in Heaven.

In view of the aforementioned, it cannot be denied that those who were called to Heaven, including Mary, are still alive in spirit in the Kingdom of God that coexists with our world. As some non-Catholics pray through their deceased parents, grandparents or other biological relatives, asking these beloved departed persons to intercede before God on their behalf, Catholics pray through Mary to Jesus, taking advantage of her blessed position as the Mother of God.

This Catholic action affirms the prophetic and Divinely inspired passage that is found in the Holy Bible where it states, "Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed." [Lk. 1:47] All generations could not call Mary blessed if she was not actively involved in the progressive Divine Plan that continues to develop before our eyes.

Indeed, all generations have called the Blessed Virgin Mary blessed, including this one, because she has never stopped interceding on behalf of the world, her intercession obtaining endless miraculous cures and other favours. The role of Mary in the area of obtaining physical miraculous cures is well known and documented in Lourdes, France, this being only one of the many holy places where the grace of God has been manifested through the Virgin Mary at apparition sites.


Aidzz
#60 Jun 20 2012 01:54pm
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Quote (Silenced_Matrix @ Jun 20 2012 12:58am)
The one thing you do have to remember bro is we are all sinners, we all do stuff we shouldn't.  I don't agree at all with praying to Mary.  But I also don't agree with myself when I look at porn cause I struggle with lust sometimes.  I am still a Christian, saved by the grace of God.


My brother, If you truly stuggle with lust you are not in need of porn you are in need of a POSITIVE relationship which is truly blessed in the eyes of the lord
I can not quote word for word since I fear the holy spirit within me is not that of the holy variety but you need a POSITIVE relationship whether it is with just God or not that is up to you
Only God can
Quote (Dune1 @ Jun 19 2012 11:49pm)
This whole post meant nothing.  I am calling out a Christian who is telling other people they are not Christians.  Surely you can see the difference in what I am doing.  Sounds to me though you are just looking for a reason to pander.



I don't need a lesson from you about wrong teachings.  You are openly judging people on their salvation, yet you want to lecture me on proper teaching?  I understand fully the incorrect doctrines that the Catholic church holds.  But there is a VAST difference in educating someone, and saying they are not a Christian (even though the Catholic church follows Christ).  Also, any given denomination has an "incorrect" doctrine.  This is the reason why there are 5,000 denominations out there.  If you were to tell me your denomination, I could tell you what's wrong about your doctrine (while holding the scriptures you just quoted to me over your head). 

Again, for issues that do not matter.. there is no reason to debate.  Just because 1 Catholic does not know what born-again is, does not mean the entire Catholic church holds the same view.  I can tell you MANY protestants who also do not know what that term means.


:thumbsup:

Lucifer condones all fighting between brothers whether they are spiritually or electronically.
If you are in this forum you either seek to help others or give out rash judgements
If you truly believe I insist you have faith when typing and ask for the LORDS strength when replying to a stranger in need
I insist you read the good Samaritan or any of the psalms.
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