The contradiction is part of the beauty, of course.

If everyone was enlightened all the time, a lot less shit would get done.

Wouldn't you agree that is, in no way, of a soluable goal? People do things, because it makes them feel wanted, purposeful. They aren't actually putting any serious thought or infallible information that people simply can not turn away from, because it holds alot of reason. Think about how... The entirety of our world's damnation is pinned against mankind itself. The roots lead to man's non-linear decisions. Mankind is not putting much thought into their immaterialised goals. They sought for something with alterior motives that will only hinder them from all other possibilities. Like, I am able to see on so many different levels and see at all kinds of angles, because my father is like ''jack of all trades''. He didn't go for that ''one thing''. He just went through life doing what he had to do, and living accordingly. That is HOW you approach life. Goals are nothing more but annoying illusions that distort better/broader intentions.

These type of goals are simply what I've aforementioned. Yes, the majority are good -hearted, but the way this reality was built, that is their only way of legitimately expressing all of the feelings and care they have for people. Do you not see that man is limited in expression? Mankind struggles to express themselves, and they still never are fully satisfied with anything. Mankind always, ALWAYS, wants more. A void that is never satisfied. So why feed it?

How do you know this? There hasn't been a single moment in history where everyone was enlightened. So how can you have a thesis like that? You don't. You are only disagreeing with me without a proper argument.

for what it's worth, proper argumentation isn't present here. you've stated a lot of claims without any evidence too

These are not claims. You can see the fall-out of having a rational goal in any given situation. I've explained it multiple times. Goals will turn you into a narrow-minded train that will not stop. While reality and all of its outside variables still play its roles outside of your personal agendas.

nvm

This post was edited by Snakefiststyle on Apr 23 2012 10:13pm

It can be intuitive, but a goal still be a goal notherless. You simply cannot escape to plan short or long term goal.

The idea and the possibles problems are the expections behind theses human created goals. It's the possibility of feeling satisfaction or suffering depending on the finnality of theses goals.

This post was edited by jerds24 on Apr 23 2012 10:19pm

There have been plenty of times where enlightened people have been enlightened, however, and it's not a fairly productive moment.

I provide for you a koan.

A man was walking to the temple and he came upon the master coming toward him, carrying a heavy sack.

The man asked the master "What is enlightenment like?"

The master took his heavy sack and put it on the ground, stretching his shoulders and smiling.

The man asked "And what comes after enlightenment?"

The master gathered up his sack and continued down the road without another word.

@ bold tell me how you know people's thoughts? How do you know that every single person in the whole damn world haven't put any serious thought or infallible information that people simply can not turn away from, because it holds a lot of reason? Did you go up to every single person in the whole world and ask them their thoughts? I doubt that you did. You cannot claim to know what people's thoughts are or what their motives are. You certainly cannot make a worldwide judgement that everybody makes goals for the purpose of self gain. It only takes one person to prove you wrong and out of 5 billion people in this world, the chances are very likely that one will think otherwise as to what you are saying right now.

Now when you say Mankind do you mean the whole entire world itself? As in every single person in this whole world are making non-linear decisions? While I may agree that some are making non-linear decisions that certainly doesn't mean that all are making non-linear decisions. What about those in mankind that are not making non-linear decisions? You haven't expressed your thoughts about them by any means. You assume that all of mankind are making non-linear decisions when I highly doubt that you have met every single person in this whole world.

You claim that some people don't put much thought into their immaterial goals. Last I checked, people get inspired by something and they make a decision that they will one day achieve their end goal. Many people would then give up when it gets too tough. The few that keep going do achieve their ultimate goal and you say that the individuals shouldn't have made that goal in the first place? If there are no goals that also takes away inspiration, which usually comes before goals. Imagine a world where there is nobody to look up to in your life. No role model. No outstanding name to live your life by, nothing to strive towards and succeed. That is essentially what your ultimate goal is. To have no goals at all for anybody to have. This isn't a game of Jenga where you take away one block and the building still stands. This is a building in the form of a triangle. If you take away one piece, in your case having goals the entire structure will collapse.

What I'm saying is if you take away goals, you take away inspiration and direction in life. You would rather the whole world to wander around like a kid in a huge shopping mall. You also say that goals are like anchors which limit all of your possibilities because you have to strive towards that and ignore everything else. While that may be partly true but think of it this day: An Athlete wants to be the best he can be so he must sacrifice all the fatty and bad foods that he eats. He may have to miss that party but along with it a nights out with some friends. You didn't take into consideration the possibility of hindering them from all the bad possibilities as well as the good ones. In the end the Athlete becomes has a very successful career, if he had not chosen that pathway the fatty foods and the partying would taking over his life and he would have never had a successful career.

In my experience if you are an all rounder you don't really excel at one thing. You aren't really a 'stand-out' for any particular thing that you do. So you think that you should live life by taking whatever comes at you and doing whatever you please and leave all your options open without ever really pursuing any one of your options. You claim THAT IS THE ONE AND ONLY WAY TO APPROACH LIFE!? You should know that there are an infinite number of ways to approach life. You have chosen your way which is leave all of your options open but never pursue any of them while we have ours which is once we find an option we desire we go for it. Even so, tell me how your way is the one and only true way to approach life and every other way is wrong? In the end of all this what are you trying to achieve if you are not trying to achieve anything at all?

So the majority of goals are good-hearted okay. Tell me how their only way of expressing their feelings and care they have for people is a bad thing? Weren't you saying before that goals are for selfish gain in a nutshell? So you do agree that there is a void and there is nothing in this world that never truly satisfies. At Church we call it a God shaped hole. You can try and fill this hole with money, life, career, success, popularity etc. You will never truly feel satisfied. The only way to fill that void and satisfy it completely is to fill that God shaped hole with...God!

Think of it this way. Is there such thing as a proper ''enlightenment''? Is enlightenment not a facade of itself? Awareness will always be vague, but it can be manifested by all means.

This post was edited by GodlessDeity on Apr 23 2012 10:23pm