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Apr 7 2012 09:27pm
Quote (Lublar @ Apr 7 2012 08:11pm)
Wow, talking to you is like talking to a retarded brick wall, not just a normal one, but a retarded one.

I'm only going to say one thing about that whole post:

If a character doesn't perform their action when the bar is full, Nothing happens.

That is not true at all. Enemies will keep attacking you regardless of whether you act or not with your characters. It does vary from game to game, I can't remember which of the ATB games have the option to make it so time stops when you navigate menus, but that is not true at all for the ATB system as a whole.

As for the rest of this whole mind-fuck. You must be completely misunderstanding everything I've said in this entire thread. In every post I've made, I've tried to point out the difference between a real turn-based game, and the ATB system. And all you've been doing is finding the word "turn" and thinking that it must mean the turn-based battle system, just because they've used the word "turn". You are arguing that the ATB system is turn based because characters still have to perform actions(we'll still use the word turn here just to make this make sense to you), but the fact of the matter is, just because they are performing an action, doesn't mean they are taking a "turn". Maybe it's been commonly called that as a carry over from the older system, and the word is very easy to use. But, It's not turn-based, because there are no rounds. Turn-based is a synonym for round-based, where in an entire round, or turn, everyone gets the same number of actions. Then a new "turn" or round starts. Playing a turn based system is more like playing Chess, while playing ATB is more like playing Risk(kind of a garbage analogy I know, but I couldn't think up anything better off the top of my head).

There's a reason why on tons of FF forums, you'll see threads asking which of the two battle systems (ATB versus turn-based) people prefer. It's because they are fundamentally different, and built on completely different principles.


I've been trying to point out the ATB is a designation of Turn based which makes FF9 a turn based game, You can't seem to get your head around the fact it doesn't need to be a traditional turn based game to still be turn based. That was the entire point of our back and forth pots all the way back to my original post which i have proven right without ANY shadow of a doubt, Even the links you provide for your own argument have proven that. Since you can't seem to get your puny mind around that. This discussion is now redundant, Since you also can't seem to understand how key words play in sentences proving your worthless dribble wrong it further renders this discussion worthless. God help your soul if you had to comprehensively answer key points in essays.

But just to summarise, You have proved my point once again. Risk is a turn-based game for two to six players. The standard version is played on a board depicting a political map of the Earth, divided into forty-two territories etc. So once again, you have proven my point. Chess is tradition turn based, Risk is ATB. An Augmented turn based system.

Its this simple, Is X turn based?

If yes, why? The only difference between ATB and CTB is CTB doesn't operate in rounds. CTB runs off an act list. Where as ATB act as the gauge fills. If X is turn based, Then so are the rest because as already proven, Rounds nor a 1:1 ratio are a requirement.

Which completely renders your statement,

Turn-based is a synonym for round-based, where in an entire round, or turn, everyone gets the same number of actions. Then a new "turn" or round starts

Completely and unequivocally wrong. If this was your argument (which you commited to) Then i am proven correct.

If no, why? CTB Stands for "Conditional Turn Based". Or are you going to tell me its just been "commonly called that as a carry over"

Its either yes or no and either way i'm right...

Checkmate

This post was edited by FunSize on Apr 7 2012 09:28pm
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Apr 7 2012 11:02pm
Quote (FunSize @ Apr 7 2012 09:27pm)
I've been trying to point out the ATB is a designation of Turn based which makes FF9 a turn based game, You can't seem to get your head around the fact it doesn't need to be a traditional turn based game to still be turn based. That was the entire point of our back and forth pots all the way back to my original post which i have proven right without ANY shadow of a doubt, Even the links you provide for your own argument have proven that. Since you can't seem to get your puny mind around that. This discussion is now redundant, Since you also can't seem to understand how key words play in sentences proving your worthless dribble wrong it further renders this discussion worthless. God help your soul if you had to comprehensively answer key points in essays.

But just to summarise, You have proved my point once again. Risk is a turn-based game for two to six players. The standard version is played on a board depicting a political map of the Earth, divided into forty-two territories etc. So once again, you have proven my point. Chess is tradition turn based, Risk is ATB. An Augmented turn based system.

Its this simple, Is X turn based?

If yes, why? The only difference between ATB and CTB is CTB doesn't operate in rounds. CTB runs off an act list. Where as ATB act as the gauge fills. If X is turn based, Then so are the rest because as already proven, Rounds nor a 1:1 ratio are a requirement.

Which completely renders your statement,

Turn-based is a synonym for round-based, where in an entire round, or turn, everyone gets the same number of actions. Then a new "turn" or round startsCompletely and unequivocally wrong. If this was your argument (which you commited to) Then i am proven correct.

If no, why? CTB Stands for "Conditional Turn Based". Or are you going to tell me its just been "commonly called that as a carry over"

Its either yes or no and either way i'm right...

Checkmate



Just to reply to a few things real quick in that post. First, I already said my analogy of risk vs chess was bad, just something that popped into my head while I wrote that post. Risk is definitely turn based, because players have defined rounds. And yes, turn-based is a synonym for round based. Like I said, turn is a misnomer. This is common knowledge, because ATB has no turns.

Lets analyze this sentence a little bit, maybe it'll help you understand:

After the action is executed, the ATB gauge is depleted and must recharge. The rate which the gauge recharges will typically correlate to the Speed stat of the character and the Battle Speed, which can be adjusted in the config. This means that combatants do not always get an equal number actions on a turn.

The last part there, "This means that combatants do not always get an equal number actions on a turn.", if combatants don't get an equal number of actions on a turn, then how do you define what a turn actually is? I'd love to hear an answer to that. Turn-based games have clearly defined turns, the turn ends when all the actions by all the characters are complete, then a new turn starts. In ATB games, where would that actually happen? In ATB, where would the turn actually start and actually end? The whole battle can't be a turn, because it's obviously the battle, turns would have to take place some time inside the battle. I'm sure you're going to try to argue that each time you select a command for your character during the battle it's a turn, but that would also be incorrect. You aren't queuing up commands to be performed during a turn when you pick "attack" or "magic" on the characters battle menu, you are just selecting a single action to be performed right then and there. There is nothing turn-like about that, it's just telling someone to perform an action while time keeps flowing.

I'm probably done in this thread now though, I've said all I've needed to say to prove my point. Not so "checkmate" like you thought though.

This post was edited by Lublar on Apr 7 2012 11:24pm
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Apr 8 2012 07:58am
It's not a turn based battle system completly, it's semi turn based becaused it's based on your characters speed. so yes it is turned based but only somewhat.
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Apr 11 2012 10:49am
I'm not in the mood to read any essays, so I'll just stay simple and say VIII and IX are tied as my all-time favorite Final Fantasy games; so yeah, IX "was good" and if you haven't given it a shot, do it.
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Apr 11 2012 11:58am
its very good.


Great story for the charatcers, great characters, great combat, lots of side quests.

The game though is generally easy, that was my only issue with it.

The "side bosses" are really easy.

I wish it were a bit harder, but oh well, still a 8+/10 game easy.

Im one of those people who level a rediculous amount, so the game was always easy.
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Apr 23 2012 10:29am
Ff9 was an amazing game. Its not turn based its atb driven. If you want to see turn based play spectral souls or ff tactics or even ffx is turn based but atb means active dummies. In a turn based game I can go to sleep and wake up and still be where I was. In atb games you can't because there are no turns just actions. actions based on the speed of your character. And as for the board game analogy risk is 1oo% turn based every player gets the same amount if actions per turn....so didnt help your case there





Overall its amazing and you unlock excalibur 2 if you can beat the gamer in record time :)
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Apr 23 2012 12:00pm
^ Yeah I know, I already pointed out that risk was a bad analogy and why. But I pretty much proved my point in my last post.
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Apr 24 2012 12:40am
Quote (thenewsheriffintown @ Apr 5 2012 07:34pm)
No ff9 sucks.  Actually all the ff games sucks except for 10 but 7 was aight.  Fanboys gonna be fanboys and claim every ff game is awesome even thought it has a very boring storyline.


get the fuck out

FF8 was incredibleeeeeeeeeeee

how could you not like it?
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Apr 24 2012 03:43am
Quote (Balla @ Apr 23 2012 11:40pm)
get the fuck out

FF8 was incredibleeeeeeeeeeee

how could you not like it?


A lot of fans felt that VIII was far too easy, although the monster levels depended on the character levels, even at level 99 the game is a cake walk. Another argument would be that the characters follow no fixed role whatsoever; however those two arguments, being too easy and having no fixed role with any of the cast members, never stopped anyone from riding VII's dick :rofl: The storyline is incredible and in any Final Fantasy game that can go a long way. One of my all-time favorites.
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Apr 24 2012 05:38pm
Quote (Grime @ Apr 24 2012 03:43am)
A lot of fans felt that VIII was far too easy, although the monster levels depended on the character levels, even at level 99 the game is a cake walk. Another argument would be that the characters follow no fixed role whatsoever; however those two arguments, being too easy and having no fixed role with any of the cast members, never stopped anyone from riding VII's dick :rofl: The storyline is incredible and in any Final Fantasy game that can go a long way. One of my all-time favorites.




What do you mean by no fixed role in 8?

But yeah, I agree that 8 is pretty easy, only the weapons, and Ultemicia's Castle are a challenge. Ultemicia's Castle is my favorite "last boss area" in any FF.

But in terms of character development, I think that 8 is by far the best. Thinking about how far Squall comes along in the game just makes me want to play it again lol.
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