Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 4 2024 08:15pm)

The irony, regarding the oil bit... Trump told the EU powers to start building refineries for both natural gas and oil. He warned them that they would suffer if they failed to do so. They laughed at him.

Imagine a Europe with cheap gas, cheap electricity, and an abundance of everything needed to keep things functioning perfectly. And imagine that after refining all Russia's crude and natural gas, you sell back 10% worth of the refined product for a full refund on your cash. 90% profit, all it takes is some refineries. Sounds cool, huh? The US did that, actively, from 2017-2020.

Now imagine a Europe with cheap food in such quantities that you can afford to simply give it away to your own citizens, if you really wanted to (of course you won't) because you're buying all the raw product from Russia, then processing it, preserving it, and selling it in ready to eat forms that a person on the go can easily wolf down. Best part? You sell Russia back 10% of the processed food product for the same amount you bought all the raw product for. 90% profit! That's what the US has been doing with Mexico for 70+ years.

Europe's inability to work together has caused 95% of the worlds problems for the last, oh... 4000 years or so. And this is why I want to see NATO dissolved and all sanctions lifted from Russia. Let's stop playing the protectionism game on behalf of Europe and force them to compete. That's when everyone wins.

Quote (norseman81 @ Feb 4 2024 08:49pm)

Nailed it. Russia and BRIC will be the dominant currencies.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 4 Feb 2024 14:20)

Not all valid.

Not in our lifetimes.

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 4 2024 09:27pm)

I mean, it's valid. But it requires working with each other, rather than constantly aggressing on each other.

And Europe heavily investing into it's own processing and production while relying on raw resources from other places is effectively how the British Empire was a thing, how US Hegemony has been a thing, and is the full description of the rise of the Chinese.

War interferes with business. Interfering with business directly interferes even more. The majority of what western governments are doing today has the practical effect of weakening the West and mid-long term forcing us into a subservient position to BRICS nations who would rather provide for their people than signal their virtue by causing them to starve.

Seems Russia learned their lesson from Stalin's actions with food production and distribution, and would rather avoid any future "Holodomor" events. Lot of Russians died. Lot of Ukrainians died. Lot of Soviets died. Needlessly. If only the West could have learned that same lesson, perhaps we wouldn't be doing everything possible to implement it, right now, in the current day.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 4 2024 11:41am)

I think the Chinese will be way more concerned about feeding over a billion people itself.

Also Russia is not even in the top 10 food exporters globally. For grain, sure. But that will disproportionately affect the Turkeys, Egypt's, Middle east or African countries.

Top food exporters in Value
1 United States 72,682,349.79
2 Germany 34,628,800.73
3 United Kingdom 29,540,218.71
4 China 25,152,286.27
5 France 24,114,557.76
6 Netherlands 23,271,570.93
7 Japan 21,870,881.77
8 Canada 21,803,448.88
9 Belgium 15,742,034.88
10 Italy 13,890,507.81

Crazy that UK is third.

Quote (El1te @ 4 Feb 2024 18:21)

China & the West have a great relationship - we send them food, they send us stuff. People hate on China too much when we have such a strong mutually beneficial relationship, & take their cheap stuff for granted.

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ 31 Jan 2024 10:44)

You will find little to no coverage of this in Canada/Europe for obvious reasons.

You are now more likely to get the truth from a Chinese news outlet sadly.