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Jul 19 2010 09:09am
Quote (Azn Masta @ Jul 19 2010 11:05am)
the rules are balanced and take into consideration actual game play as well. not just paper theory crafting bullshit

so while yes, a sorc shoots faster, they shoot attacks 1 by one. a necro can setup a trail/train of spirits which will lock and hit at the same time.

not to mention they have the ability to lock on and stomp as soon as the spirits all hit to break the sorc's es (now of course, no good sorc should lose to a necro, but none the less the rules are pretty fair)

if we based the rules of "u can do anything cept pot, and nk" the only classes that would really work would be physical and magic chars as anything else would get sorbed.... go figure


a good necro should never lose to a sorc as well.

its not balanced in the least bit.
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Jul 19 2010 09:10am
Quote (MateDeVita @ Jul 19 2010 11:09am)
OK just for the mention of south park I won't flame you any more.

Instead you can just listen to Azn Masta, he is the god of diablo knowledge and knows everything.


i am his god
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Jul 19 2010 09:12am
Quote (Noob_Nova @ 19 Jul 2010 17:10)
i am his god

Does that mean you know more than him? :o But that's... impossible! Only ultima1 could match his knowledge of the game :o
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Jul 19 2010 09:15am
tldr u suck.
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Jul 19 2010 09:15am
Quote (Noob_Nova @ Jul 19 2010 11:09am)
a good necro should never lose to a sorc as well.

its not balanced in the least bit.


a good sorc will beat a necro.

if u do not believe me in this i am willing to duel u on d2pk for all the fg i have in a ft5 "gm" according to east's gm pvp rules and i'll play sorc

i'll use only vendor items (aka real items) and u can use w/e basic gm necro vs sorc setup u want as long as u dont fully sorb me.

guarantee i'll win all 5 out of 5 duels.
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Jul 19 2010 09:27am
Quote (Azn Masta @ Jul 19 2010 11:15am)
a good sorc will beat a necro.

if u do not believe me in this i am willing to duel u on d2pk for all the fg i have in a ft5 "gm" according to east's gm pvp rules and i'll play sorc

i'll use only vendor items (aka real items) and u can use w/e basic gm necro vs sorc setup u want as long as u dont fully sorb me.

guarantee i'll win all 5 out of 5 duels.


unless you are a 200% Fcr Fire Ball Sorc or a 1 hit Kill Blizzard Sorc you will not win.

I am not willing to put it to the test because I am about to pass out.

A good necro should never automatically lose to a good sorc.

Thinking like this is what lead to jacked up, un-balanced, 1 sided rules in the first place.
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Jul 19 2010 09:29am
Quote (Noob_Nova @ Jul 19 2010 11:27am)
unless you are a 200% Fcr Fire Ball Sorc or a 1 hit Kill Blizzard Sorc you will not win.

I am not willing to put it to the test because I am about to pass out.

A good necro should never automatically lose to a good sorc.

Thinking like this is what lead to jacked up, un-balanced, 1 sided rules in the first place.


i will use a ~73% es (whatever the es cta gives me) 105fcr fb sorc

u can use hotspurs on me if u wish

shall we make a game and test this out on a different day? unless you are scared and refuse to back up your claim
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Jul 19 2010 09:31am
the fuck is this shit?

Quote (Noob_Nova @ Jul 19 2010 06:22am)
If you happen to go to sticky titled "Official US East PvP GM Rules," or something along those lines...

you will notice that one of the GM requirements is that: "you may not have over 75% psn length reduction."

This indicates that the rules have actually not been written by someone knowledgeable enough about the game, to competently write the rules.

Why you may ask?

Once upon a time, in a land far far away it happened to be common knowledge that psn dmg length reduction had a cap to it, this was built into the gaming code. Similar to DR, which caps at 50% in PvP.

It is difficult for me to remember clearly however, the game automatically caps Psn length reduction at 75% if not 50%. nice theorycraft on 50%

So why does the GM rules say that you may not have more then 75% when having more then 75% doesn't effect anything either way?

This is just a small example of one of the many errors of the GM pvp rules which were written in an attempt to balance classes in PvP.

Further analysis will reveal things such as unbalanced dmg ratios between classes. What do I mean by this? Say a light sorc does 1000 dmg but a necro does 500 dmg. Even if the necro exceeds the GM max light res rules, and uses 95% max light res, the Light sorc will still do more Dmg then the Necro. Since a sorc can cast faster, and she is doing more dmg either way, how does it make sense to say that a necro is limited to 85% max res? It does not. sorb rules were made to eliminate hard counters and complete shutdowns of character through a few simple sorb items, allowing elemental characters to compete on a more even field with nonelemental characters such as bvcs, necros, winddruids, and others. Sorb rules are not meant to balance the game 100% for every matchup 1v1. class balances and class advantages still exist with sorb rules, this is part of d2. comparing necros and sorcs against one another is silly because the gm sorb rule is meant to give light sorcs a chance to compete with other classes without being shut down by sorb, the sorb rules were put in effect for "vs all", not to balance sorc vs necro in particular. comparing them means nothing because the classes play in different ways vs different opponents.

You can find all kinds of mathematical errors similar to this one in the rules.

In additional to all of the logical errors in the rules, their a numerous abstract errors. One example is that of the paladin. An effective Hdin can be made with a focus on Max Res skills rather then holy shield. For anyone who doesn't understand this, placing 2 hard skill points into, for example, light res arua, will increase the paladins max light res by 1. By spending 20 points the paladin can increase his total max res by 10. This Allows the paladin to exceed the GM Max res limit, and manipulate the GM rules. paladins are still bound by the 85res rule, using 20 points in light res aura means they will not be able to stack further with tgods under gm rules

There are several other options for coming up with ways around the rules if you think about it.

The entire GM system needs to be re-written; based on dmg ratios. And taking into account any special ability that a class may have. For example, probabilities such as weapon block, or dodge evade avoid, or ES reg rate, ect... need to be taken into consideration.

Or just say fuck it and throw out the entire GM system.


although I agree that a bunch of the GM rules are silly and personally Im more in favor of less rules, especially on things such as poison restriction or slow%. however I do think gm rules are a good idea for d2 pvp because the game was not balanced properly for pvp and too many hard counters exist that nullify classes. A lot of players seem to enjoy GM rules, and in general it causes less bitching than not. The rules have developed on their own over time and communities embraced them. don't mess with things if there isn't anything wrong with them. Class advantages will still always exist 1v1, nothing can be done about that such is how d2 is, not to mention different class variants may have different class balance vs particular opponents. The GM system does not need to be re-written based on dmg ratios - lets not complicate something which is already an over complicated rulebook. If anything sorb rules are good with being simplified to 85res or 1 piece sorb max, with as little exceptions as possible. imho some rules should be thrown away and GM rules should not be as restrictive as they are (imho) but there is no need to complicate them further, the 1 piece sorb rule works pretty well globally for allowing elemental characters to compete against other characters without the threat of being nullified completely by anyone with a few pieces of sorb. The rule works, its a good addition. no need to complicate it based on dmg ratios, gm rules aren't supposed to balance every matchup 50/50, that is not what d2 is about.

GM rules are there to allow classes that might otherwise be shut down to compete against one another. Competing does not mean getting both classes down to a 50/50 chance of winning. Otherwise we might see something silly like different sorb rules for a bvc dueling a c/c trapper rather than a w/s trapper. Under the global sorb rules most classes can compete against one another. That is the purpose and it is good. Trying to balance everything 50/50 is not, class advantages are natural to d2.

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Jul 19 2010 09:37am
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Jul 19 2010 09:34am
I see where you're coming from.

The only thing I have a problem about the GM rules is that Hotspurs are GM on a Necromancer.
Now, verse a Fireball sorc, yeah that makes sense. 28k splash attack verse ~8000 (?) line-of-sight (bone spear) hardly seems fair without the resistances, especially more so if the sorc is ES, thus allowing mass tankage.

Now against a fire druid (QQ if you have to wear Spurs against a fire druid...) or a shaman druid, fissure will range between ~8000 (fire druid) and ~4000 (shaman) respectively.
4000 -> PvP penatly -> 90% fire res = very low, AoE, cool down timer (4 seconds) attack, compared too ~8000 -> PvP penatly = relatively high, spammable, non-sorbable/ blockable hit.

Clearly puts the necromancer in the much better attacking end of the spectrum and thus allows game style to change where the necromancer can continually stomp without worrying about being damaged.
And yes, I play a PvP Shaman druid
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Jul 19 2010 09:35am
Quote (Ziecheik @ Jul 19 2010 03:31pm)
the fuck is this shit?



although I agree that a bunch of the GM rules are silly and personally Im more in favor of less rules, especially on things such as poison restriction or slow%. however I do think gm rules are a good idea for d2 pvp because the game was not balanced properly for pvp and too many hard counters exist that nullify classes. A lot of players seem to enjoy GM rules, and in general it causes less bitching than not. The rules have developed on their own over time and communities embraced them. don't mess with things if there isn't anything wrong with them. Class advantages will still always exist 1v1, nothing can be done about that such is how d2 is, not to mention different class variants may have different class balance vs particular opponents. The GM system does not need to be re-written based on dmg ratios - lets not complicate something which is already an over complicated rulebook. If anything sorb rules are good with being simplified to 85res or 1 piece sorb max, with as little exceptions as possible. imho some rules should be thrown away and GM rules should not be as restrictive as they are (imho) but there is no need to complicate them further, the 1 piece sorb rule works pretty well globally for allowing elemental characters to compete against other characters without the threat of being nullified completely by anyone with a few pieces of sorb. The rule works, its a good addition. no need to complicate it based on dmg ratios, gm rules aren't supposed to balance every matchup 50/50, that is not what d2 is about.




my eyes!!!!
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