Think swords > axe's for melee
think Light > Ice for caster

Charms can now hit for zero dmg, because of the monsters int reducing your overall dmg.
As your dmg is reduced by there int, it will creep closer to where a weak ice charm will not do any dmg to a high int mob, where a light still will, just proving the point light does more dmg in the same relationship sword>axe.

Ofc the higher int/dmg you have the more insignificant this figure is, but it still is existent and exists as less dmg when using ice over lighting.


Edit* until people realize this, they will continue to overpay for ice, when in reality it should be the other way around, but as we know the smart ones already know this such as McClain.

This post was edited by A_U_T_I_S_M on Feb 18 2010 09:33pm

you have to have a very bad charm for that to be the case.

most of the time you'll still get the same reduction, no matter what charm.

This post was edited by Cloudfire on Feb 18 2010 09:35pm

same as you would need a very bad axe for this to be the case, but this doesnt mean swords dont do more dmg then axe's, And your probably thinking only scenarios with low int mobs, when the mobs have 200 int, even a nice ice charm showing 400-500 dmg will hit for less then 200.

Im not saying axe's and ice are bad, im just saying they are the worst.

I have known for over 2 years now light > ice, but with the new updates it just makes it that much more significant. 1 year ago people boo'd me and called me stupid for thinking light > ice. But now at least i have proof.

R.I.P. Ice.

This post was edited by A_U_T_I_S_M on Feb 18 2010 09:39pm

so an ice gets reduced by 200damage

...what makes a lightning exempt from this?

i guess because if u roll anything less than 200 it can only reduce it by 200
so a 50 hit is still 0
but i have capped ices to 40 they do pretty good

I have never done 0 damage to any monster except where mana skin was involved. Do you, with light? Hell, I didn't with light or wind either.

0... wow. Never. I well just fine. Consistantly, constantly.

Don't listen to Chris' bullshit. It boils down to this:

Ice = consistancy. If you wish to be sure that you will have enough mana vs your power vs the well's life, ice is the way to go. Crits makes it neat, because you can even calculate a bit off, and still manage the kill.

Lightning, you may kill some wells in very few shots. Others you may not kill at all, after using the entirety of your mana, due to hitting nothing but low shots. For welling specifically? I don't really care, personally. I did just fine with wind, light, ice, and fire. Haven't tried earth yet.

Conclusion? Depends on your gear.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 18 2010 09:56pm

I dont think McClain knew monsters would be getting magical defense when he decided to get light charms some odd year ago.

Also could be wrong here, but if your charm isnt hitting 0 at anytime (in comparable EEs) the defensive undercut doesnt apply, bringing the two charms back on to par. So, in my opinion, in higher amounts of EE you should go with the consistent damage charms since the overkill factor is not an issue and the undercut thing your speaking of doesnt apply.

Link to undercut thing being calculated

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=31115563&f=272


Just to elaborate my point a bit, 200 int, 200 EE lite charm 55 will have a minimum damage of 125.

Im fairly confident arena mobs and cata mobs wont have enough defense to negate that amount of damage, on the most part anyways.

This post was edited by arxyn on Feb 18 2010 10:07pm

Weird cause ive had 250+ int with 225+ EE light, and i have hit for zero. Many times. Just proving int does have a negating factor enough for light to actually do more dmg.

And p.s. Bob its not b.s.


Im not saying it happends to often, but it does happen.




and dude if you hit a well mob 40 times to kill it, the average will average out, the odds of light hitting for 10% less dmg overall with 40 hits is probably 1 : 100.000, same as it has that chance to do 10% more dmg.

Aka if you roll 1 million dice, the total of all the dice wont be to far from 3.5 if ya catch my drift, you act like you have 100 mana the charm used 100 mana per cast. If you can kill it Ez with ice, you can kill it EZ with light, If its a hair puller, then it will be a hairpuller.



not really cause they still fluctuate in dmg.

This post was edited by A_U_T_I_S_M on Feb 18 2010 10:29pm

Iunno, Ill go ask some other guy with high EE lights because sometimes I borrow the guilds 166 EE sword and Ill hit very few 0 damages. Im guessing... less then 1%, would just need to calculate whether that 1%, combined with undercut over weighs the benefits from the reduced overkills.

I might actually test this next climb, Ill use a 100 damage axe, 120 damage axe, 140 damage axe, 160 damage axe, and calculate how many % of those hits are 0s at levels 55 and 65 in arena.

We could settle this once and for all!



Yeah Ill agree, but the consistent charms also have an added benefit you need to take into consideration, you cant just take only want you want eh

This post was edited by arxyn on Feb 18 2010 10:25pm

I think the fluctuating argument is invalid because in exactly the same thing you just told insanebob, the damage will average out at 100 if that axes average damage is 100.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what your trying to say, seems like a stupid thing to post right after what you just told insanebob.

If I take say... 2000 hits at level 55 and 2000 at 65 getting 10 hits per mob.

So 200 mobs x 10 hits @ 55 and 65

This post was edited by arxyn on Feb 18 2010 10:41pm