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Oct 15 2014 10:10pm
Quote (nineinchnailz @ Oct 16 2014 12:09am)
Great post.  There is a plethora of evidence in each of the first 3 categories.  The evidence is so overwhelming that it rivals the case for the theory of gravity.


i might not agree with you on some of your threads or posts but you sir are making some logic at the moment.

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Oct 15 2014 10:11pm
Quote (Scaly @ 16 Oct 2014 00:09)
I don't think you understand even the basics of evolutionary theory... a fish didn't fuck a lizard and give birth to a salamander... That's not how it works.

Just because you haven't researched or can't understand the evidence doesn't mean it's nonexistent.


I've studied evolution in many different college courses =/. anthropology. Botany,zoology, general bio, intro to science ect.
I understand the basics.=/ I'm just saying all our evidence is based off stuff we assumed after we dug up some fossils. All examples of evolution within our more intelligent society have been cased as micro. We won't know how it truly works until we have studied it thousands of years.
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Oct 15 2014 10:12pm
Evolution is coolness.
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Oct 15 2014 10:12pm
Quote (Scaly @ Oct 16 2014 12:09am)
I don't think you understand even the basics of evolutionary theory... a fish didn't fuck a lizard and give birth to a salamander... That's not how it works.

Just because you haven't researched or can't understand the evidence doesn't mean it's nonexistent.


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Oct 15 2014 10:14pm
Quote (Scaly @ Oct 16 2014 03:56am)
Ok then. Let's try this -

Macroevolution - Evolution that results in the formation of a new taxonomic group above the level of a species.

I'm going to break down my argument into four simple primary points that any layman can examine:

1) Fossil - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between species, when we study the fossil record as a whole we should see an apparent and gradual change over time between different distinct species. For example, if we presume species X evolved from, or shares a common ancestor with species Y, over the course of Z years, we would expect to find fossil forms that change from X, to appearing to be X less and less like X and gradually more and more like Y, and those fossils should be independently dated and fit within the current hypothesis in terms of timescale.

2) Morphological - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between species, when we study currently living organisms, we should find various parts of the body that are "left over" parts, remnants from presumed previous ancestor species that those older species would have used for various specific purposes in their specific habitats, but currently have no known use or existing function for the current species in it's current habitat, or would have current uses that might be drastically different than their ancestors and were co-opted for other uses to adapt to different environments.

3) Genetic - If we were to examine the genomes of all living things, we should find patterns and similarities connecting different species and they would be related to the extent that the species are related. Like the fossil evidence, we should find patterns over time that fit into their respective time scales, and presumed relatives should share parts of their genomes that correlate to the combination between each species genetic rates of change and the amount of time between the divergence of those species. Oversimplified example: Species X's DNA is known to change about Q% each generation, and we think that species X diverged from species Y approximately Z years ago, we would hypothesize the DNA of species Y to be at most Z * Q% different.

4) Convergence of Evidence - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between two species, we should find this hypothesis is supported by the genetic evidence, fossil evidence, AND morphological evidence, and that each provides strength and independent verification to the others.

If macroevolution occurred, we would expect to find evidence supporting the aforementioned hypothesis, as well as each distinct area supporting the others. While this is only an extremely small and oversimplified part of the overwhelming evidence for macro evolution, providing independent and converging evidence that supports each hypothesis would be very strong evidence for macroevolution.



1) The fossil record doesnt actually have transitional fossils, we would expect a long lineage of these fossils, 1-2 "transitional" fossils such as Archaeopteryx attempts to show a bird with what it seems to be reptilian parts as well. however its just a regular bird. my argument also agaisnt the fossils is that its still human natur to try to put together something that looks like something. i wonder if you gave took a sand box and put 100 different bones from differen animals in it, if those scientists that pieces these fossils together to for a species would make something different.

2) Morphological is usually only noticed withing the embryo, how do we know for sure if its actually starting to develop those parts or if its just the natural stages of the embryo growth. science is merly observing, their conclusions can be wrong, as it has been on other things for years such as the earth being the center of the solar system ect.

3) if we were created, wouldnt it makes sense that the creator would make many species with the same genetic information if they have similar functional parts.
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Oct 15 2014 10:15pm
Quote (AkuuZ @ 16 Oct 2014 00:14)
1) The fossil record doesnt actually have transitional fossils, we would expect a long lineage of these fossils, 1-2 "transitional" fossils such as Archaeopteryx attempts to show a bird with what it seems to be reptilian parts as well. however its just a regular bird. my argument also agaisnt the fossils is that its still human natur to try to put together something that looks like something. i wonder if you gave took a sand box and put 100 different bones from differen animals in it, if those scientists that pieces these fossils together to for a species would make something different.

2) Morphological is usually only noticed withing the embryo, how do we know for sure if its actually starting to develop those parts or if  its just the natural stages of the embryo growth. science is merly observing, their conclusions can be wrong, as it has been on other things for years such as the earth being the center of the solar system ect.

3) if we were created, wouldnt it makes sense that the creator would make many species with the same genetic information if they have similar functional parts.


This guy has the modern religious arguments down.

edit: for the most part, anyways.

This post was edited by ChrisKz on Oct 15 2014 10:15pm
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Oct 15 2014 10:16pm
Quote (ChrisKz @ 16 Oct 2014 04:11)
I've studied evolution in many different college courses =/. anthropology. Botany,zoology, general bio, intro to science ect.
I understand the basics.=/ I'm just saying all our evidence is based off stuff we assumed after we dug up some fossils. All examples of evolution within our more intelligent society have been cased as micro. We won't know how it truly works until we have studied it thousands of years.


Are you kidding me? Did you even read any of my rather long post on the evidence for macro-evolution? If you'd studied evolutionary theory or evolutionary biology you would know that the post you just made is patently false. Fossils aren't even half of the evidence, not even a third, that we have for macro-evolution.


This post was edited by Scaly on Oct 15 2014 10:16pm
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Oct 15 2014 10:18pm
Quote (ChrisKz @ Oct 15 2014 11:06pm)
Different species can mate with each other, but they produce infertile offspring do they not? Different breeds can mate and produce fertile offspring.
I also can't get past the fact that macro evolution can't produce things like the eye by default, because it is a complicated structure that would not carry throughout generations.
Macro evolution exists, it just doesn't make logical sense that it created the complex organisms that exist today. But.... Without using macro evolution, because aliens would have to go through this as well to produce intelligent life, we have to turn to religion.
That is the main problem. Of course they can co-exists, but a lot people aren't willing to bet their meaning of life on faith, and ect.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xtue2qLJ5Y

You have to pay 1.99 to watch that video but you mention the eye. That video I linked details exactly how the eye evolved. It's really fascinating to watch. They explain evolution in a way anyone will understand.
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Oct 15 2014 10:18pm
Quote (Scaly @ 16 Oct 2014 00:16)
Are you kidding me? Did you even read any of my rather long post on the evidence for macro-evolution? If you'd studied evolutionary theory or evolutionary biology you would know that the post you just made is patently false. Fossils aren't even half of the evidence, not even a third, that we have for macro-evolution.


We don't have solid evidence for macro-evolution, which is why there is still a religious side for the argument. People on both sides a lot smarter than us have been debating this for a long time my friend.


Quote (nineinchnailz @ 16 Oct 2014 00:18)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xtue2qLJ5Y

You have to pay 1.99 to watch that video but you mention the eye.  That video I linked details exactly how the eye evolved.  It's really fascinating to watch.  They explain evolution in a way anyone will understand.


I'm not going to beleive anything in a youtube video unless a famous instructor recommended it to me...

This post was edited by ChrisKz on Oct 15 2014 10:19pm
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Oct 15 2014 10:19pm
Quote (nineinchnailz @ Oct 16 2014 12:18am)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xtue2qLJ5Y

You have to pay 1.99 to watch that video but you mention the eye.  That video I linked details exactly how the eye evolved.  It's really fascinating to watch.  They explain evolution in a way anyone will understand.


i call racist. says it wont allow my country to view that heap of sh1t of a video. damn racism

:bonk:
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