yea arreats dmg/ar is almost as much as 15ds but then theres 35cb

on 5k life opponent, 35cb~5000/2/10/2*0.35~43dmg per hit

in a duel you might hit~10 times so thats 430 dmg which isnt bad at all

edit: although it wont be quite that much since a lower ar with those cbs.. so bit more complicated really

This post was edited by hue_two on Aug 24 2010 05:28pm

Do remember that hp loss won't be strictly linear- due to crushing blow removing a logarithmic amount of damage per hit. This effect is muted by your strong linear damage, which is a magnitude higher
But it is indeed safe to say its around ~43 damage per hit on average. Maybe 40 or so


+% damage from +skills to whirlwind & mastery is what makes arreats do as much damage as the %deadly strike- on top of +life/mana/defense/ar/leap/everything possible else
but that +% ar is directly competing against 35% crushing blow

whats better,
35% crushing blow that does not help your damage reach FHR breakpoints
or
+56% attack rating, +100 base attack rating, and loads and loads of other stats like +life


I think hitting the hammerdin more reliably is more important than hitting him harder. Hammerdins hide behind massive defense, and on average you'll probably deal more damage with an arreats- and put him into FHR more often

afaik the %ed from arreats isnt close to 15ds, its BOTH the +ar/%ar and skill-ed dmg that comes close to 15ds in terms of damage over time

so it leaves +2bo vs 35cb.

also with guil its 90% crit vs 80% crit so as you crit more often you prob get as much hit recovery animations with guil

edit: also a lot of hammerdin dont have massive def

This post was edited by hue_two on Aug 24 2010 06:22pm

ill provide maths later

lets take fairly normal high end case:

level 95 barb
390 grief zerker (non-sup)
265/35 beast zerker
enigma
trangs gloves
arachs
gore riders
highlords
240/20 ravenfrost x2
20 stat torch & anni
combined +60 max damage, +400 attack rating from charms (ie half 3/20/20's, half 20/5's + anni/torch)
*or*
angelics instead of ravens + highlords


only difference between the two will be guillaimes vs arreats, both helm vs 100 ar 15 max jewels


Example Maths:
Arreats + Ravens:
196 strength + 186 fanat + 206 whirlwind + 178 mastery = +766% enhanced damage
120 dext + 400 charms + 480 ravens + 100 jewel = 1565 base AR
160 whirlwind + 268 mastery + 80 fanat + 20 arreats = +528% ar = 9828 Attack Rating
Grief -> 414-461 base + 60 charms + 15 jewel = 475 average damage -> 4114 before DS/CS
20% grief + 15% boots + 35% highlords = 70% ds
+23% critical = 76.9% combined -> 7808 average final damage
Beast -> 211 average base -> 1827 before DS/CS
50% ds + 23% crit = 61.5% combined -> 2951 average final damage
Final stats =
Grief: 7808 damage, 9828 AR
Beast: 2951 damage, 9828 AR



Full Stats:

Arreats + Ravens:
Grief: 7808 damage, 9828 AR
Beast: 2951 damage, 9828 AR

Guillaimes + Ravens:
Grief: 7325 damage, 8380 AR
Beast: 2984 damage, 8380 AR

Arreats + Angelics:
Grief: 6049 Damage, 19772 AR
Beast: 2406 Damage, 19772 AR

Guillaimes + Angelics:
Grief: 6164 Damage, 17413 AR
Beast: 2473 Damage, 17413 AR





Point being, yeah, the +%ED on arreats from the +skills accounts for the +15% Deadly Strike on guillaimes
So how valuable do you count 35% crushing blow?


Is 35% crushing enough to make up for +7% overall damage, +17% overall AR, +6% life,+ 6% mana, +4 leap, 40% defense, 287 base defense, +34% all resists, +3% frw, +30% stamina, 6% life leech and 20 second durations to all your cries?

This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 24 2010 11:12pm

how did you get that number in red?

also you're using wrong skill crit value

you are correct, i forgot to use the 1.13 values. However I think that makes the discrepency even worse now, since it mutes the effects of the DS on guillaimes even more

final damage = base damage * %ED * (1 + %combined deadly/crit)
%combined deadly/crit value can be given as:

1 - (1 - ds)(1 - cs)


I don't actually have access to a 1.13 calculator so I can't tell the levels very easily. If you wanna redo the calculations with the new crit value, its actually really really easy- just divide the final damage by the "old" crit value, and multiply by the new one

This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 25 2010 11:37am

1.13 formula (new ceiling of 35):

Crit% = [35*[(110*lvl)/(lvl+6)]/100]

See also: http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/barbarian-combatmasteries.shtml
or use the 1.13 skill calculator @ inDiablo.de.

ewya daunted by a math problem too much to do it himself herself?

you can but is hard take formula then you owne a little