Introduction:

Good day to you ladies and gentlemen. Tonight is the seventh of the ten questions that we are studying at Church. I have been taking notes and I am going to try and portray what I heard at Church onto here. The seventh question of the ten questions is this: Isn't the Church behind war and injustice? This is another topic that is fiercely debated when we look at what is going on in the world today. We have all asked this question before, at least I know I have.

Too many cover-ups

Mark 7:1-23 NIV

That Which Defiles

The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[a])

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[b]
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.” [16] [f]

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Now many people see the Church as the reasons why we have had so many wars and all the injustices done. Looking at History there was the Crusades War. There was also September 11 2001. Just one of the many examples.

However some people like to go deeper into this. Not only do people view the Church as rotten but they view it as evil and poisonous. Many people view the Church as: 'The root of all evil.' So their solution is to simply get rid of the Church and that will get rid of injustice.
Now I must ask you, is it just the Church that causes war and injustice? What about Politicians, Places of power, Big Businesses, Sporting Institutions, Bullying in Schools and slavery?

We don't see many people blaming those other places for war and injustice as much as they do the Church. There are many books that paint the Church as evil but we don't see so many books that paint those other places as evil and things that must be disposed of.
There are many other examples where the Church wasn't behind a particular war and injustice. Here are a few examples.

Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 6,000,000
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999) 30,000
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

So you tell me, if we get rid of the Church will that get rid of all injustice?

The Bible says that it is from within, that comes out from the heart that causes evil. Which means that people are behind injustice. Where people gather, injustice will occur.
So if the people are behind injustice then that means that the people need to chance. The hearts need to change. That means over 7 billion hearts on this planet need drastic change.

If where people gather there will be injustice then that means that every neighbourhood has had injustice. If every neighbourhood has had injustice, every household has also had injustice. The problem goes much deeper than the organizations.
The heart of the problem lies just there, the heart. Everybody wants to cover up their flaws by blaming it on other people or organizations. The problem is that bad that we have no idea. If your life was FULLY exposed so that the entire world could know everything about you, how would you feel?
Every time you thought about hurting or even killing someone and how bad and horrific your thoughts were. How would you cope if all your secrets were exposed?

You'd want to hide until it all blows over. So what we all do is try and cover it all up. We cover it up and then we don't touch it again. What that means is essentially we don't go deeper into the very core of the problem at hand of the full reason behind war and injustice. It is you and I.
Oh and if you care about statistics and numbers then onto the next paragraph.

Here is a quote that is very confronting to many people: "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history." http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Basically, all the worst mass murders in history wasn't religious driven at all. The statistics show that if you add up all the number of deaths, the atheistic driven mass murders vastly outweigh the number of religious war deaths.

So many people put this whole problem of war and injustice and try to store it all into one compartment, that being the Church. However, the problem lies everywhere where people are. It is time to stop covering up and expose it all and get into the real core of the problem at hand, our hearts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No more cover-ups

Now with that Bible passage from earlier, Jesus said these words: “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

This heart problem is shared by EVERYBODY! Now that is the problem, the solution is plainly and simply we need a new heart. Not just any new heart but a new pure heart. The hearts we have now are hardened. There is only one who can supply us with that heart, that is Jesus. I'm talking spiritually.
It was Jesus who taught us to love our enemies and to show humility. There was no such thing as loving your enemies before Jesus came along. Before Jesus came along all those people lived with pride and wanting to be #1. Jesus changed all that. As a matter of fact Jesus inspired many people to stand up against injustice.

Some of these range from - Freedom, slavery and racism and the list goes on. Now in conclusion I have to say that YES, the Church is a PART of the war and injustices. However, all people are behind war and injustice. Jesus came and has changed the world in many ways for the better. Martin Luther is a shining example who had inspiration from Jesus and he gave that famous I have a dream message. We all share the same evil heart so we need a new heart. Jesus can provide us with that new heart.

It seems you're arguing against the proposition that "religion causes all injustice," which no one has ever argued as far as I know, it's the straw man version of the real argument, and none of these things are done "in the name" of atheism, and especially not via the style of the critical thinking people like Dawkins typically (if snarkily) espouse. I'm sure I've heard Harris argue that atheism in and of itself is not good or bad, as you could be an atheist for a completely irrational reason, and argues for the avoidance of any sort of irrationality as far as is possible.

I don't agree with everything these particular guys argue, and I agree they've gone too far in blaming religion for such things sometimes, though.

Religion at times forms a convenient rationalization to convince people to go along with whatever injustices (or convince people to participate), and a way around critical thought. Many other ways around it exist. I'd like to see a single example of someone using a lack of belief in a god as some impetus for any sort of large-scale injustice. Hitler and the Communists listed were more busy riling up everyone with the "evil Jews," political dissidents, or historical wrongs they have suffered that need to be avenged.



Nonsense, see Confucius, Buddha

http://www.unification.net/ws/theme144.htm

Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy, Be friendly to your enemy.
- Akkadian Councils of Wisdom (from the ancient Babylonian civilization that existed two millennia before Jesus was born)



-Socrates (Plato's Republic)



Historically, slavery and racism have not been seen as opposed to Christianity necessarily by large numbers of Christians (slavery existed in some Christian societies until rather recently, racism still exists in a few). I agree they were interpreting it wrong, but that's the reality.

Sorry for the argumentative tone in perhaps the wrong forum, I followed a link from the religious and political discussion forum posted by the OP there.