d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Christian Fellowship > Got Questions About God? > #2 How Could A Good God Allow Suffering?
Add Reply New Topic
Member
Posts: 17,571
Joined: Mar 13 2009
Gold: 0.00
Feb 10 2013 06:22am
Introduction:

Good day to you ladies and gentlemen. Tonight is the second of the ten questions that we are studying at Church. I have been taking notes and I am going to try and portray what I heard at Church onto here. The second question of the ten questions is this: How could a good God allow suffering?
Everybody, even Christians have asked this question from time to time. Unfortunately there is no easy answer to this question. There is no straight up answer that you can give to this question. There are many different forms of suffering that there is no easy answer.

All throughout The Bible people have asked God why they need to suffer or how much longer they need to suffer.

Psalm 6:3 NIV
My soul is in anguish. How long, O LORD, how long?

Job 2:13 NIV
Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights. No one said a word to him, because they saw how great his suffering was.

Now most people, if not all, should know the story with Job. Job's friends did the best thing they could have by not saying a single word to him. Just when you thought that Job couldn't suffer any more than he already had, his friends start ripping into him.

Some people write down songs about their suffering and anguish. One well known song is titled "Everybody Hurts" by R.E.M. You are not alone in suffering because everybody suffers at one point or another. We each have our own individual story about how we have suffered.
Brooke Faser C.S. Lewis song
"If I find in myself desires nothing in this world can satisfy,
I can only conclude that I was not made for here"

Now we like to ask why because that is our natural reaction, is to ask why. Now why is it that we feel that it's wrong?

Why is it that we feel that suffering is wrong? Everyone has that spark inside them that says "Hang on, someone should be in charge around here." That, of course is referring to God. Why do we assume that this world should be perfect?

To answer this we need to go back to the Fall once again.
Genesis 3:17 NIV
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.

God cursed the man, the woman and the ground. The story in a nutshell goes like this. God creates the perfect world and puts man in charge of it to look after it. With the fall, God curses the man and woman but if he doesn't curse the ground then the ground would rule over man so he also curses the ground so man can still rule over the ground, if that makes sense.

The mistake that Adam made is the same mistake that everybody from then on has made, not trusting God and wanting to live in a world without God as a part of their life. We have allasked for a world without God. We see the result of that in the suffering. Our time here on Earth when we want to live in a world without God, is just a taste in eternity without God. Now you do not want that full scale in Eternity because that would be Hell.

Remember when God made the world he saw that it was very good as it says in Genesis.
Genesis 1:31 NIV
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

The issue with suffering has been dealt with anyway as you will see.
Romans 8:18 NIV
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now what is our solution to suffering? Do we want to wish it all away in a heartbeat? Do we want this to happen...?

John 11:35:43
Jesus wept. So the Jews were saying, “See how He loved him!” But some of them said, “Could not this man, who opened the eyes of the blind man, [a]have kept this man also from dying?”

So Jesus, again being deeply moved within, *came to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone was lying against it. Jesus *said, “Remove the stone.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, *said to Him, “Lord, by this time there will be a stench, for he has been dead four days.” Jesus *said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the [c]people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.” When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, [B]“Lazarus, come forth.”

First and foremost Jesus wept. That is very significant because it shows that Jesus was not an unmoveable person. It also showed that he cares about our suffering. He is going to do something about it. Now at the end of that story Jesus calls out "Lazarus, come forth!" Lazarus is resurrected. So that problem of suffering is solved right? That is half true. Lazarus did come out alive but he would die once again. He would have to die again as he certainly isn't here today. In the end, death will take us all one day. Each of us carries death within oneself. The problem is much deeper than we imagine. If we realize that the problem is much larger than what we see, then that means that the solution to our problem is also much deeper than we can imagine.

There is a temporary solution and there is an eternal solution. Jesus came down to be a part of suffering and saw it all. He takes all our suffering and nails it to the cross. It MUST happen in Jesus' words.

Luke 9:22 NIV
And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

Luke 22:44 NIV
And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
Jesus was in anguish because he knew that shortly he was going to be captured by the Romans. He suffered anguish and he prayed earnestly to God.

1 Peter 3:18 NIV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
Jesus not only suffered but he suffered more than anybody ever has. He had to reach so far down, more than anybody else, to grab all the suffering that everybody has and will ever endure and nail it to the cross.

In the end though, the suffering will stop. We will see a new world.
Revelation 21:4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

We have received our eternal solution to suffering. As for what has happened recently, well let's list a few things that has happened which has caused suffering.

1945 WWII, the atomic bomb dropping on Hiroshima.
1972 Napalm Girl (easy google image if you want to see it)
2001 Terrorist attack on the World Trade Centre.
2011 Floods in Australia
2012 Connecticut School Shooting

Now how do we explain all of those and answer to all of them? If we knew then we'd be God. That was the problem to begin with, us wanting to be God. We don't know so therefore we aren't God. What God did, he treated our suffering seriously by entering it here on Earth and dealt with it once and for all.
The permanent solution, the eternal solution is taken care of. That is the one that matters. As for the here and now, we don't know what the plan is for us but God has a plan, that you can be sure of.

This post was edited by CPK001 on Feb 10 2013 06:26am
Retired Moderator
Posts: 15,536
Joined: Apr 3 2006
Gold: 848.00
Trader: Trusted
Feb 10 2013 09:20am
God never interferes in the cycle of human existence.
we suffer because we fail, it is God's law, it is the law of cause and effect.
we suffer because we move away from the divine laws.
we suffer because we are imperfect, however on the way to perfection.

Lazarus was not dead, Lazarus suffered from catalepsy, in his words jesus said:
Lazarus is not dead, Lazarus sleeps.


Edit
The truly good is what fulfills the law of justice, love and charity in their highest purity. If it raises awareness about his own actions, ask yourself if violated this law, if not practice evil, became all the good that could be voluntarily dismissed any occasion be helpful if anyone has any complaints of him, finally if the others did everything they wanted him to do.

This post was edited by El Shadday on Feb 10 2013 09:28am
Member
Posts: 7,580
Joined: Dec 7 2009
Gold: Locked
Trader: Scammer
Warn: 10%
Feb 13 2013 04:39pm
if god is all knowing and infallible, why does he/she allow terrible atrocities to happen on a daily basis?
Member
Posts: 7,939
Joined: Mar 8 2010
Gold: 450.98
Feb 13 2013 06:22pm
Quote (bRo0dLiNgS @ Feb 13 2013 05:39pm)
if god is all knowing and infallible, why does he/she allow terrible atrocities to happen on a daily basis?


That is a great question and I will answer that for you.

A truly loving, all knowing and infallible God would give you a choice in this lifetime. If humans were made into perfect robots made to worship God and we lived in a perfect world with only peace and harmony (it wouldn't be real peace and harmony since it wasn't a choice) not being given a choice weather to accept him or to reject him or not being able to see the opposite of his perfection is not a loving God at all.

This quote below explains why it has to happen. I know it might be a long read, but it's explains it very well.

Quote
Why Does This Have to Happen?

The next most logical question we need to ask is Why? Why did a loving God allow such a horrible thing to happen? And why do these future events have to happen? Not to lower God’s concept of love to Man’s carnal level, but so that you can relate to His eternal supreme majesty and power; Imagine if you will, that you had all the power over minds and hearts to make everyone automatically love you. The result of this would be total acceptance by everyone. In our baser desires and wants, you would have friendship, love and romance by anyone and everyone at your personal desire. A novel idea at first but in time this would begin to be empty in the sense of always knowing that it was your power over them that made everyone respond to you. How much deeper, how much richer would the relationships be if they chose you because they wanted to, or that they even were aware of a choice?

In the same respect but of a much higher level than man’s carnal idea of love, God, desired to bring this love relationship with His creation further along. This higher level of love is not motivated in the sense that God is lacking anything. Rather, it is His desire for a more richly, deeper, mature relationship with His creation. His creation never knew anything but perfection. They never experienced or knew of anything less. Not being their fault, but they would be like a bunch of spoiled rich kids! This situation is not the result that they were doing anything wrong. They simply could not appreciate what they had because they had never experienced anything else!

The only way a mature relationship could be accomplished would be to give creation a choice. This choice would obviously mean the creation of something with the potential of being the opposite and in contrast of Himself. Satan was created as God’s right hand man. Man then, stood in the middle, the outcome was already known and the plan made ready. Man would choose the wrong tree or path and it would then only be fair that God Himself would have to correct the error.

In doing this, when all is come to completion, man and all of creation sees by experience what anything less than God’s perfection would be like. Mankind would also appreciate much deeper the relationship they have with their Creator. Because God’s love for his creation is so great He insures that none of his creation will be “lost” in the whole process. This is why everyone in his or her own personal way (who was in the original plan, or the “Book of Life” as God’s seed, there are two seeds) will respond to His love in their time of mortal life. All they would have to do is exercise their own free will to overcome the artificial realities of this mortal life and respond to God’s prompting and Love. And they will! It is God’s guarantee of faithfulness and love for his creation.(Jo10:28,29)

What is gained by all of this? Man receives a deeper appreciation of the person of God. He receives a forever awe of the willing price God himself was willing to make to have this deeper relationship. He enters into a maturity knowing and experiencing something opposite of God’s perfection. Nothing is taken for granted and everything is appreciated with a depth that could not be realized in any other way. This new and deeper relationship with God is so Heaven and Earth shaking that it is necessary that a “new heaven and a new earth are created to contain it!

Jim Wilhelmsen (2009-01-21). Beyond Science Fiction! (pp. 290-291)


This post was edited by Gold_Llama on Feb 13 2013 06:40pm
Member
Posts: 17,571
Joined: Mar 13 2009
Gold: 0.00
Feb 13 2013 07:30pm
Quote (Gold_Llama @ Feb 14 2013 10:22am)
That is a great question and I will answer that for you.

A truly loving, all knowing and infallible God would give you a choice in this lifetime. If humans were made into perfect robots made to worship God and we lived in a perfect world with only peace and harmony (it wouldn't be real peace and harmony since it wasn't a choice) not being given a choice weather to accept him or to reject him or not being able to see the opposite of his perfection is not a loving God at all.

This quote below explains why it has to happen. I know it might be a long read, but it's explains it very well.


Shall I repost that quote in this topic in the PaRD section? I like that quote.
Member
Posts: 7,939
Joined: Mar 8 2010
Gold: 450.98
Feb 13 2013 07:48pm
Quote (CPK001 @ Feb 13 2013 08:30pm)
Shall I repost that quote in this topic in the PaRD section? I like that quote.


Ofcourse! You're more than welcome too. :)

This post was edited by Gold_Llama on Feb 13 2013 08:00pm
Go Back To Christian Fellowship Topic List
Add Reply New Topic