It was prophesied that in the last days, the great river Euphrates would be [COLOR="Red"]"dried up"[/COLOR] to make way for the "Kings of the East" who will come to make war with Israel. Who are these kings of the East anyways?



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/world/middleeast/14euphrates.html is a link to a fairly recent news article stating that the River Euphrates is drying up:





The Big Question: What are these "Four angels which are bound beneath the riverbed"? Are they machines? Are they beings? How and why will they slay 1/3 of mankind?

What, or who are they?

This post was edited by Torm1 on Feb 9 2011 10:37am

Rev 9:14
"one saying to the sixth angel that had one trumpet, Loose the four angels that are bound at the great river Euphrates."
At the time of the Revelation, the Euphrates river was the eastern boundary between the Roman Empire and the Parthian Empire. The Parthians were Rome's greatest enemy at the time of the writing of the Revelation.

The Parthian Empire is a fascinating period of Persian history closely connected to Greece and Rome. Ruling from 247 B.C. to A.D. 228 in ancient Persia (Iran), the Parthians defeated Alexander the Great's successors, the Seleucids, conquered most of the Middle East and southwest Asia, controlled the Silk Road and built Parthia into an Eastern superpower. The Parthian empire counterbalanced Rome's dominance in the West. Parthia at one time occupied areas now in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaidzhan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine and Israel.

The Euphrates River is mentioned by name in this vision. This would certainly suggest that the actual river is in view here. Being mentioned before the horsemen in this vision appears to mean that this river is going to be the area or the direction from which the sixth plague on the empire will come. The Parthian cavalry was world renowned and dreaded for their war tactics from horseback. The Roman Empire, eager to push its borders further and the Parthians likewise desiring to conquer more territory were bitter enemies. The Euphrates River became a hotly disputed border between the two with each empire seemingly digging in their heels and refusing to retreat any further.

We see a parallel in this vision with the sixth bowl of wrath in Revelation 16:12, where the Euphrates river was effected in such a way as to prepare the way for the kings of the east. The kings of the east were the Parthians. Vassal kingdoms made up much of their territory and each one had its king and to say there was no love lost between them and the Roman Empire is a profound understatement.

The plague announced here with the sixth trumpet appears to be the incessant attacks of the Parthian Kings across the Euphrates and into Roman territory. It was a significant drain on Roman resources to defend this border from attack and served to contribute to the erosion of Rome's power.

Rev 9:15
"And the four angels were loosed, that had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, that they should kill the third part of men."
The number 4 was symbolic of the world in which we live so these four angels may have represented the enemies of the Romans on a worldwide scale. The Parthians, while bitter enemies of the Roman Empire were not its only adversaries. The Romans faced a number of other great enemies besides the Parthians, such as the Germans which included the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths. It was the Visigoths who paved the way for the final downfall of the Roman Empire defeating and sacking the city of Rome in 410 A.D. It is significant to note that the Germanic tribes which invaded the Empire from the west were horsemen just like the Parthian Cavalry.

Being prepared for the precise time period stated simply means that God had them prepared beforehand to do His exact bidding at the time of His choosing. The third part of men killed does not literally mean that exactly a third of all mankind perished in this plague, rather it means that a lot of people perished in this judgment doubtless being represented by the slain on both sides of the conflict.

It does not say in this announcement that the saints of God are excluded from this plague. This is a picture of war and good people die as a consequence of it. The saints of all time can take great comfort in the assurance that all the faithful who die will be counted with the victorious and will inherit the rewards and promises of those who die in Christ.

Revelation 9:16
"And the number of the armies of the horsemen was twice ten thousand times ten thousand: I heard the number of them."
This army of horsemen numbered 2 times ten thousand times ten thousand which is 200,000,000. If we take this number literally and give space for each man to be on a horse the area of land which this would encompass would be roughly a strip of land 1 mile wide and 200 or so miles long giving each horse and horseman an area 4 feet wide and 8 feet long.

This number is not to be taken literally. In fact it is so fantastic a literal number that one should almost be aware of the fact of it's figurative representation simply from the sheer enormity of the numbers involved. To put such a number in perspective, if each horse ate 10 pounds of grain a day that would be 2 billion pounds of feed every single day. That would be roughly 45,000 loads of feed from a full sized modern day grain trailer pulled behind an over the road truck every single day. If each horse drank 5 gallons of water every day we are looking at a billion gallons of water every day. It would take a good sized river to furnish that kind of fresh water and we need to keep in mind that they are going to need to fit 200 miles of horses one mile wide along the banks of this river just to give them a chance to drink. And if this isn't enough, we still have not fed the horsemen. The U.S. Census Bureau reports that there is an estimated 303,000,000 people, men, women and children in the United States in 2008. The number of horsemen in the vision if they were literal would have been two thirds of the total population of the United States. When dealing with numbers of this magnitude, we need to be realistic about them. There simply were not enough resources and capability in that day and time to even consider mobilizing such a force at one time. In the first century, this number was symbolic of a sufficient number to carry out God's retribution on the Roman Empire.

While the Parthians were the enemy behind the Euphrates River, in consideration of the fact that the Roman Empire had many more enemies than just them, being represented by the number which symbolized the world in which we live and considering the vastness of the number used to represent these horsemen, it is entirely likely this number represented the sum total of all the horsemen of all the enemies of Rome through all the centuries leading up to its downfall. The first readers would probably have been aware of that fact based on the sheer size of the number, knowing instantly that there were not even that many horsemen and horses in any one cavalry in any one kingdom at any one time in history.



This post was edited by Kisssofdeath on Feb 9 2011 12:22pm

bentherdonethat likes this.

Very informative.

You are welcome. Our congregation went through Revelation a few years back. Very interesting, very symbolic in nature.

So you think it happened already?

The problem is, the earth hasn't been utterly destroyed yet, and the day of the Lord takes place in the future.

I didn't know there was a problem? You will have to elaborate and tell me what the problems is.

Back when I was in Youth Group we went through Revelation as well, but in the way that Torm1's talking about. As if it's to be taken literally and there was no historical context whatsoever. I don't go to that church anymore, because I'm convinced the people there solely evangelize through and preach about fear, and that's just not a good way to spread/practice any religion.

"God will have to destroy those who destroy the earth, otherwise no flesh would be saved"

And all the other verses in revelation too... Its talking about the day of the LORD, which is going to occur soon.

But I won't sit here and argue with you guys, I was just reading from the New Testament and got some good advice.

You've already had 3 chances.

This post was edited by Torm1 on Feb 9 2011 08:17pm

Im not arguing at all. I apologize if I came off that way with my last reply. Torm1, you cannot take most subjects literally in Revelation. That is exacly why I continued on with 9:16 above, to give that as an example.

Let me ask you a question, is "the day of the Lord" you are talking about, is it judgment day? I think it is. I'm probably going to step on some toes but if so, so be it, souls are at stake here.

There is a day coming in which we will all stand in judgment before the Lord. “And as it is appointed for men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). We have two appointments, which we will definitely keep: and that is death and judgment. These cannot be cancelled. When we draw our last breath our eternal destiny is sealed. We don’t know when we will die. We might drop dead of a heart attack or stroke in the next few minutes or be killed in a car wreck in the morning. Life is uncertain. Judgment day is certain. There is no way to escape it. All of us will be there for this final appointment. “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done in the body, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men” (2 Corinthians 5:10-11). No one will be excluded from the Judgment. Every person, who has ever lived, that is now living, and who will ever live, will stand before the Lord and be judged.

We do not know when Judgment Day will come. “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness” (2 Peter 3:10-11). Does this not discribe what you are talking about? Where is this found? It's found in 2 Peter 3:10, not in Revelation. This is so plain, how can you take an easy to understand statement like this and give it less credit to more difficult passages like found in Revelation? ALWAYS remember nothing in the Bible contradicts, we both know that. We must be very serious about the Judgment. When God decides to end time, “the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power” (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9). “For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written ‘As I live says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God’. So then each of us shall give an account of himself to God” (Romans 14:10-12). Jesus is not coming twice, there will not be a 1000 year reign. There will be no second chance.

What will the judgment be like? “Then I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things written in the books…And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire…The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and false prophet are. And they shall be tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:11-12, 15, 10). Being cast into the lake of fire with the devil is not very good company to be with forever and ever. Whoever reads this is your name in the Book of Life? Are you sure? Your eternal destiny of either Heaven or Hell will be determined by whether it is there or not.

The Lord is omniscient. He knows all things. “And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give an account” (Hebrews 4:13). The Lord will make no mistakes in the Judgment. “For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil” (Ecclesiastes 12:14). We can have no secrets from God. He knows everything about each one of us.

There will be only a few people saved, but the vast majority will be condemned to the everlasting fires of Hell. Our Lord tells us to “Enter the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13-14). At the Judgment there will be two groups of people, the vast majority who are lost and the few who are saved.

In the Judgment it will be determined where we will be spending eternity, whether in Heaven or Hell. Concerning Judgment Day Jesus says, “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Matthew 7:21-23). Many will be shocked and terrified to learn that their sincerity, good works, and prayers will be to no avail if they have left out the essential component of obedience to God’s will. It is very wise to obey the will of God and only the will of God. No human creed written by men or convention of men will do us any good, but will only cause one to be eternally lost in Hell. God will not accept any of our excuses. Being religious is not enough, doing good works is not enough. We must submit to the obedience of God’s will, and not our will, or else we will hear the Lord say, “I never knew you, depart from Me” (Matthew 7:23). The Lord’s judgment will be final. There will be no appeal. There is only one judgment. There will be no "secret calling away", there will be no second chance. When Jesus comes back the Book of Life will be opened.

God will not accept anyone who is a member of any of the many denominational churches established by men. I know I will step on some toes when I say this but I'd rather try to open eyes and have someone mad at me than lead someone to believe otherwise. The words I say here come from the Bible, they are not mine but God's word. Jesus says, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted” (Matthew 15:13). The "PLANT" is the CHURCH, the body of Christ. Jesus has only promised to save His one church (Ephesians 5:23), the only one He purchased with His own blood (Acts 20:28). All the foolish and false doctrines that men have devised in “handling the word of God deceitfully” (2 Corinthians 4:2) will cause billions of people to be lost forever in the burning fires of Hell. The only standard of our judgment will be God’s word as found in the Bible. Jesus says, “the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). I'm just telling it like it is.

On judgment day there will only be two verdicts: either 1) “I never knew you, depart from Me”...”you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 7:23, 25:41), or 2) “Well done, good and faithful servant…enter into the joy of your Lord” (Matthew 25:21). Our number one priority in this life is that we must be prepared to meet the Lord in judgment. If we miss Heaven and end up in Hell we can only blame ourselves. We chose to be there. There will not be a second chance. We have got to get it right the first time. The only thing that matters in this life is obtaining a home in Heaven; nothing else is as important.

It is simple.

Earth is a functional, sustainable and adaptable speciesystem. If you go and try to unbalance it at the rate of which
it cannot anylonger function, sustain or adapt itself then you would begin destroying it. It will inturn produce curumstances and events
that will prove hostile for you and its species. You will therefore seaze to exist.

Short tl;dr example

cut away trees = no oxygen
no oxygen = we die

simple cycle yet man has not implimented this knowledge.
Therefore man is dumbass and does not deserve to live on this earth. Therefore smart people need to kill dumb people. They start writing stories like the bible, koran, torah etc
and try to whipe out all the dumbness by writing dumb things themselves. Evidently They have gone backwards and much stupider