If it isn't said in the Bible, then why do it? Why waste time on something that isn't Biblical, when you could do exactly what the Bible says - pray to God directly. He isn't putting up barriers - that is exactly why he sent Jesus to us. What does it matter if Mary had a special relation to her son? That doesn't mean she can respond to or even hear your prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. My spiritual life is completely fulfilled in Jesus. Even if what you claim is true, you can bring your prayers directly to Jesus or the Father.

1 Chronicles 16:11
Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always.

To depend on doctrines that are founded from logic outside of the Bible is heresy - especially when they contradict the simplest of commandments. Plain and simple. You have been misled by tradition. Seek the Father, son, and Holy Spirit and you will be completely and utterly satisfied. If you do this, there won't even be the possibility that your jar is filled with "tasteless water."

John 7:37 says:
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

1 Timothy 2:5 NIV
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

This post was edited by Diligence on Jul 12 2012 09:02pm

Visibly I am wasting my time discussing with you buddy. After all my previous posts, if you still bring your Bible quotes like that dodging what is my points and even more, accusing me of heresy because I say its ok to pray the Rosary to obtains favors from God then we will have this useless discussion you and me. Just move on I am sure you have something more important to do in life so do I. Again, whether its not written in the Bible black on white that we have to pray Mary, there is still enough material in there that we believe, as catholic, its good to bring our petitions to God through Mary. The wedding of Cana bring a good picture of it, whe Jesus gave her to humanity when he was on the cross is another big picture and all around, Mary is: blessed above all women.." It doesnt make her more righteousness but still, it is legitimate to bring our petitions through her and if this disturb you that much, I think you have to look inside you rather then into the Bible, finding quotes that you believe, will validate your statement. I dont think by praying Mary, catholic devote will go to hell bro Prayer is a prayer and Mary will always awnser to her child: do whatever he ask you to do (Jn 2:5) This was the last record words of Mary i the bible and these words will echos forever in my heart.

Mt 7:6:
"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you."

This post was edited by nekrotic on Jul 13 2012 05:03am

Hey Rushton, Thats ok brother. Was idiot from me to pin you down the way I did and If I hurt you I am really sorry and I apologize to you. Its not because people are hiding behind their computers that we are allowed to say anything bad to others. Its ok to have different points of view about faith and Bible and if our difference creates trenches among us we both are wrong. Christianity should build bridges and dialogue among nations, not division and war..

This post was edited by nekrotic on Jul 13 2012 05:06am

if you main goal is happiness with a feeling of togetherness with god at your death, theres tons of paths you can take, if praying to mary is part of your path so be it, in my opinion though in a biblical sense i think of mary as more of a pipe that the soul of god flowed through into Jesus, not that she so much gave birth to the son of god, so i dont think of praying to mary as really having a point.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Jul 13 2012 06:45am

You've made no valid points in your previous posts. I have addressed each of your "points," not dodged them. Do you not consider the Bible as the ultimate authority, which is then the foundation for tradition? If you diminish the Bible's authority beyond your own opinions, then yes, I really have nothing else to add to this conversation. If you have something better to do, put your actions where your mouth is. However, I will continue to rebuke my Christian brothers.

This post was edited by Diligence on Jul 13 2012 09:26am

Sorry buddy but no, Bible for catholic is not the ultimate authority. We believe that tradition is also considered as a continuation of what has been written 2000 years ago. This is the teaching of the depot of chritian faith and there is nothing you can do against that. Its not because you quotes Bible verses that you understand the Bible. Obviously, you are just doing what a parrot do; memorising and repeating without understanding what you are talking about. I cant believe you call yourself a minister.. omg lol

We pray the word has several meanings, in this case is an appeal for prayer. We ask Mary to pray for us because we believe she has a place in heaven, and prayer is a mighty warrior.
You will find, however, that the devotion to Mary is not strong at all Catholics.
Let me quote from the Gospel of Luke: 28And the angel came to her and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
And here:
41And came to pass that when Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit:
42And she spoke with a loud voice, saying: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43And where is this for me, the mother of my Lord comes to me?
(Chapter 1 RV)
Now here is the famous "Ave Maria" prayer.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

This thread is a perfect example of the problems that reside within the Christian church and the reason why we are beginning to falter on the Great Commission. Rather than love one another, we choose to allow our opinions to run our lives, and the lives of others. This world is stumbling over us, rather than seeing the path to Jesus. When we bicker, Satan wins. Paul spoke about having worthless conversations and debates within the church. If we are not unified for a common purpose, how can we expect the world to know what our purpose is? The Christian Church has degraded itself into an organization that is quick to call out the faults, but slow to encourage. Slow to support. Slow to point to Jesus.

I do not pray to Mary, nor do I believe anyone should. But I do not allow that to become a stumbling block to the world, or to the people who do. Jesus's love and compassion is so much bigger than the petty arguments we try to conjure up. Rather than degrade or point fingers at someone, show them the love of Jesus. Allow GOD to convict them if what they are doing is outside of his will.

I understand the great importance of sound doctrine and accountability. Do not confuse what I wrote as someone who does not understand those matters. But I do not believe Jesus would badger someone who loved him with mindless debates of what is scriptural or not found in scripture. Jesus would love that individual and encourage that person to follow him. Following Jesus does not make one perfect. At times we all trip, stumble, and fall off that path. It is up to us to continue to point in the direction of Jesus, and help that person get back on that path.

When our church understands this, his kingdom will surely grow. Stop with the divisiveness and point to Jesus. When a person follows Jesus, that person will transform into his likeness.

Yes, I'm just a parrot with no understanding. At least I've read the Bible. Then again, I forgot - you know everything so well, including me and what I'm about. It is not I who qualify myself as a minister, but those who have accepted me as such for them and their children.

But know this - I will never elevate man's understanding above God's, as you have done.

Isaiah 55

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

This post was edited by Diligence on Jul 13 2012 12:18pm

I read again and I cant find where I elevate man`s understanding above God.
Anyway, instead of putting energy and using Bible quotes on how people shouldn't pray Mary, use it for the right thing: spread the love of God and show how this may make a real difference in our lives. Because, since the last 3-4 pages with yuour multiples Bible quotes, you are using it as a shield, defense mod, also as a weapon. You are the opposite of what a real minister should be. By the way, where are those people who accepted you as a minister ? None of them wrote that here so yes, you are the one who self proclaim it lol You attacked me about a simple affirmation which was, as catholic, we pray Mary.. I would understand in some way if I had try to convert people to this or impose this prayer method as a must be but I never had that pretension.
And for your information, I have not only read the entire Bible many times but I also have some theology degree in University.

This post was edited by nekrotic on Jul 13 2012 08:41pm